The Coffee Nebula Board is for the discussion of Star Trek: Voyager and other sci-fi/cult shows. This is its Archive of episode discussions, top ten lists, fan fiction, and other miscellaneous musings.



:tv: ENT: "Civilization" Discussion Area...
SuzyQ -- 14 Nov 2001, 23:49 GMT

Captain Archer and the crew discover a fully inhabited, civilized though less advanced Earth-like planet. Disguised to look like its inhabitants, they pay the planet an exploratory visit where they learn that a pernicious illness is afflicting the local population. As Archer seeks to help them find the malady's source, he finds himself in a close encounter with a comely female alien.

Director: Mike Vejar Teleplay: Phyllis Strong & Michael Sussman


Nice good TOS-like episode
Terry -- 15 Nov 2001, 02:08 GMT

More TOS-like than anything I've seen since Kirk and Spock went off the air.

I really like T'Pol. She got a nasty, bloodthirsty side that came out when she kicked that Melloran ship's butt. OTOH, Trip's premature mutiny made him look like a butthead.

I've decided that I'm been a little harsh on Enterprise because there are a few truly excellent shows out there right now. Enterprise isn't one of them but it's slowly improved into a good show.

I think the standalone idea fits this show much better than it did Voyager. If Archer would improve, the show could be pretty good. He's still a bit shrill at times.

This week's TOS reference: Tellurites.

Next week: a Mayweather episode. Doh!

Hom-hum (if inoffensive) TOS-like episode
david g -- 15 Nov 2001, 02:26 GMT

I enjoyed watching this ep...and i like the fact that this series isnt beating us over the head w/action and mega-plotting...but what exactly is going ON here?

i mean, apart from the ever-increasing pleasantness of the cast interactions...what exactly is this series about?

watching this ep, i really wondered what the point was. nothing of any consequence seemed to happen here. at all. seriously.

ok, i liked Tpol w/the hair. i liked Tripp noticing Tpol's rogue ear. i didnt hate Archer this time round.

i enjoyed watching the ep...but what was it about, again?...the preview was the chief source of entertainment for me. finally, some sparks and the pilot may have a pulse?

david g

This was a nice CIVILIZATION to visit.
Jason -- 15 Nov 2001, 02:55 GMT

Seeing the promo for this show, I was a little concerned. T'Pol looked ugly in the preview and the promotional images posted at the official site.

Luckily, she was hotter than ever! Call me crazy but I really liked those pointed ears sticking out of her long hair... I think longer tresses might be a kick-@ss look for her.

How I love T'Pol? Let me count the ways:

*Jolene Blalock was not joking when she said she was the best "shaker" in the cast. I was blown away by her backward fall back into the captain's seat (exactly where she belongs, although Archer did make progress this week).

*"I said *prepare* to leave orbit." Enough said!

*In general, a nice come from behind victory for T'Pol given she was outmatched. I'm not sure how happy I am about ENTERPRISE showing humans so far behind technologically than everyone else. All the aliens they've met so far have had tractor beams it seems, and now some even have shields. I thought Starfleet's one innovative advantage was the transporter but apparently other species have that too.

I thought Archer was much better this week than he has been lately. And his babe was pretty cool.

Oh wait-- but what does this have to do with T'Pol?

Anyway, suffice it to say T'Pol rocked this week!

As for the rest-- the story while not extremely eventful played out really well, and there was definitely a sort of TOS feeling to it.

When Archer unmasked his assailant, I thought for a second that it looked like a Suliban. Might have been an interesting twist, but no objections over meeting these nasty aliens.

All in all, CIVILIZATION made for a nice trip.


What *happened* to the Suliban?
Janeway216 -- 15 Nov 2001, 03:52 GMT

Did we hear anything official on where they went? I thought I remembered B&B saying that the Suliban would be back, but we've seen neither hide nor hair of them since.

I liked "Civilization" quite a bit. Well, I can't say that I've absolutely detested any episode so far, though. Phlox and Mayweather, my two least favorite characters, didn't have much screen time so they couldn't annoy me as badly. Hoshi, who is probably my favorite character, got a little more screen time, which is good.

And as for the costuming: T'Pol looked really great with the long hair -- it just looked more natural. I really hate that wig. Whoever said it's too flat on top was totally right.

But let me get the shallow part out of the way -- Our Boy Connor with little blond highlights!! :eek: Move over Michael Weatherly, I found someone new to drool over! Sign me up for Trip-a-holics Anonymous, I've even got Southern belle names in the family so I won't have to worry about trying to gentrify ;-) 216.

I liked the gal pal costar, Riaan. Smart, spunky, and stupendous, and Archer interacted well with her; he seemed to go through his lines a little quieter than normal. Some quick thinking there when the UT crapped out ;-).

Next week: Mayweather gets a spine.

Or maybe I should sign myself Jessie Rae -- that was my great-grandmother's name, believe it or not, and we share a middle name.

They will be back soon....
Eric -- 15 Nov 2001, 04:07 GMT a episode called Cold War. NIM :)

Civilization : Nice place to vist but you wouldn't want to live there...
Eric -- 15 Nov 2001, 04:09 GMT

Civilization was the first paint by numbers episode for me. That is not to say it was BAD but it was the first time i saw the end from a mile away. It was kinda fun getting there but i was hopeing for a little more.

However, the trailer for next week looks frelling AWESOME!

SPOILERS 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

Ok first of all i should point out that this episodes aliens of the week are NOT the Suliban from Broken Bow. Not sure who they were since we only got a locaton from the shopkeeper alien, not a name.

As i said above this one was the ABC's of a Star Trek First Contact except Archer doesn't have to whine about the Prime Directive before he has to break it!

But yes , lets run the list :

1) Peaceful low tech native folk? Check. 2) Evil High Tech Bad Aliens? Check. 3) Cute Native Girl for Captain to kiss? Check. 4) Last minute save by the Good Guys? Check. 5) Tear Stained goodbye to CNG? Check.

It's an old formula and this episode proves it can work but i was hopeing for more from this new Star Trek.

Anyway the dots were followed nicely, even better then on Voyager when they did this story!

I would be a little disapointed in this one if the trailer for next week didn't look so frelling AMAZING.

I'll give it a 7/10.


Bro. V -- 15 Nov 2001, 04:10 GMT

I haven't seen Enterprise, but I'm sure it sucks.


I liked it
Ruth -- 15 Nov 2001, 04:18 GMT

I think the crew is beginning to meld togehter, and I'm used enough to the characters now that I enjoy seeing the way they interact with each other. I caught a real Spock/McCoy vibe near the end between T'Pol and Trip.

And hey, any episode that has Trip draped in nothing but a bedspread is A-okay with me.

All right. All right. It was a cloak of some sort. And he was wearing other clothes under it. But a girl can dream, can't she?!


CIVILIZATION was definitely a place we've visited before.
Jason -- 15 Nov 2001, 04:34 GMT

I agree that it wasn't very new. There were definite familiar aspects from lots of previous Trek episodes (especially the TNG show about Data in the pre-industrial village that inadvertantly got radiation poisoning because of some probe fragments he had), but what made CIVILIZATION work for me was a.) T'Pol T'Pol T'Pol, b.) Other Alien Babe, c.) no major plot mis-steps and d.) the crew going on the Away Mission together.

If ENTERPRISE can keep doing "by the numbers" this well, it's impressive... but there's gotta be something more.


Were these the aliens from "V"?! :) NIM
david g -- 15 Nov 2001, 05:26 GMT

I didn't get much of a TOS vibe from this one...
Virginnie -- 15 Nov 2001, 05:51 GMT

..but I got such a strong TNG vibe that my teeth started to ache. This episode was enjoyable, but not very distinctive. Although everyone certainly looked pretty--T'Pol, Hoshi, Trip, the guest AOTW.

I liked Rian--she was smart and pragmatic. I liked the fact that Hoshi was originally selected to do the initial reconnoitering because of her translating skills. I liked the fact that the universal translator had a glitch, and Archer had to think fast in the face of Rian's incomprehensible comments. I was disappointed with the automatic assumption that this human-looking species would kiss like humans do. It would have been more interesting, if Rian had been insulted or perplexed.

I liked T'Pol in this ep, but I almost always like T'Pol. I thought the little bit at the beginning was funny, expecially the impassive look T'Pol gives Archer at the end of the teaser. Jolene's getting really good at that look. I thought T'Pol was a unusually trigger-happy in this ep, but it worked out all right. OTOH I thought Trip deserved a spanking and some serious corner time for his mutinous little outburst on the bridge, but I guess the point was that, despite their little bonding moment in Breaking the Ice, he and T'Pol still have "issues". But, boy, was he out of line.

It bugged me that Archer thought clothes and make-up were enough to allow the away team to pass in an alien culture. It bugged me that this pre-industrial culture was so very, very tidy. It bugged me that the alien baddies were so easy to get rid of (or were they?). It bugged me that we see a clipper ship in full sail on an ocean, but no shots of Trip in pirate clothes. I mean really--the away team couldn't have landed near a port?

I did laugh at Archer's comment about aliens landing in cornfields on Earth, and I agree with Eric--the promo for next week looks great.

Oh darn, Ruth
Jules -- 15 Nov 2001, 13:24 GMT

Just when I was getting my hopes up, you had to go and spoil it by adding another paragraph.

I take it that this episode was another bust on the blue underoo watching front then? :-( Never mind. Cloaks are good too, even if that's dressing up rather than dressing down.


For what I *did* see...
D'Alaire -- 15 Nov 2001, 13:31 GMT

...I generally liked it. Having reception problems--they've been retuning their radar in our area, so it's usually hit-or-miss. I'll have to wait until Saturday if I want to actually appreciate the look of the ep--which I think woud be worth the effort for what I did pick up.

But I did enjoy the smart, put-together AOTW (Riann, was it?), the costuming (that I could see, it really was lovely), and the fact that Hoshi got to play on the surface for a bit. Too bad there wasn't more of her. Archer still doesn't appeal to me, but he didn't annoy me as he has in past weeks. :rolleyes: I dunno, there's just no chemistry with him for me, not as a captain or a character.

I liked T'Pol on the surface (why couldn't they have long-haired Vulcans in those days, like what I remembered from earlier Vulcan women? She looked much nicer with it), and on the bridge, when I was thinking "what's up Trip's behind?!" She came off very effectively. My only complaint: How many times do we have to hear "cultural contamination" before we actually get her meaning?

But the way it turned out so cleanly makes me wonder why the PD should have mattered later on. ;)

A familiar ep without much consequence dialog or theme-wise, but there were enough nice bits to keep me watching.

Next week: WHO's the PILOT?!

I liked it, too..
Vickie -- 15 Nov 2001, 13:48 GMT

...apparently more than most of the rest of you all. Of course, it was an episode about toxicology and public health, so you know I'm going to love it. :-)

And, I'd like to take this opportunity to send a big ol' raspberry :-p to everyone who whined after the first episode about a perceived lack of female characters.

The women of Voyager, including the Alien Babe of the Week, rocked!! They're smarter than the guys, they're tough, and they kicked butt.

The big pile of work on my desk stops me from gushing on, so I'll just say it one more time: I really liked this episode.


Well from MY end of the shallow pool...
Eric -- 15 Nov 2001, 15:37 GMT

Hoshi was far sexier then T'Pol this week with her long curly raven hair down to her shoulders... :eek:


Eric :D

Re: Nice good TOS-like episode
Pegn -- 15 Nov 2001, 15:49 GMT

I got the TOS feel from this episode. I was hoping for more of Hoshi(?) on the away mission. She looked kind of disappointed when Archer felt there was need for more members of the Away Team, like this mission was supposed to be her baby.

And I get Kirk/Spock friendship-to-come vibes from T'Pol/Trip interaction. Tripp did bug me with his almost mutiny but I actually like T'Pol when she gets a fire lit under her. (Okay, this is mean, but what enters the room first, T'Pol's lips or her breasts?)

Was it just me or was the brief glimpse I got of the mining operation not unlike the glimpse I got of the underground Vulcan spy operation in the Andorian episode?

I will join your raspberry ! :b :agree:
Tim Holden -- 15 Nov 2001, 16:12 GMT

Sorry, Jules!
Ruth -- 15 Nov 2001, 17:29 GMT

I was tired when I typed the message last night and it might not be clear until you've seen the episode but Trip's cloak in particular looked like a bedspread to me.

But don't worry -- even "dressed up" he looked pretty darn scrumptious in the "undercover" outfit. Ginny's right in that all four of the away team members looked great. Hoshi's hair was beautiful, and the long hair softened T'Pol's face in a very flattering way.


An entertaining but not great episode.
D -- 15 Nov 2001, 19:06 GMT

From the clip of Archer saying something to a local about all the planets I was afraid this would be a "why the Prime Directive was written" episode. But their actions would have been basically OK had the PD been in existence. They did try to blend in, not bring attention to themselves or let the locals see their technology until the other aliens forced their hand. Even then Archer only confided in Rian. They provided medicine, but the illness was a result of the Mellorans' pollution, not anything the natives did. I imagine there will be some questions about the fire fight since several locals saw it. For a change it seems the Vulcans and Starfleet agree on something - keep the Mellorans from returning and interfering in the planet's development.

I thought that one of the aliens wasn't a Melloran but a disguised Suliban. That they are being established as the 22nd Century's hired thugs, popping up whenever there's something shady going on.

Hoshi is coming along. She seemed a little hesitant when it was to be a solo away mission, but her enthusiasm for studying the languages outweighed that. And she was the "logical" one to interact with the locals. When it became an away team after they picked up the neutrino emissions, sending Trip as well as T'Pol made sense for a change, since this was partially a technical puzzle. As for Archer, I still can't get used to the Captain going on away missions as a matter of course.

Reminders that this is pre-TOS: Couldn't scan below the force field or take it down easily. No dermal regenerators - to look like the locals the doctor needed prosthetics and glue, and T'Pol had to wear a wig. The Universal Translator isn't very reliable.

Re: :tv: ENT: "Civilization" *shrug*
Mindy -- 15 Nov 2001, 23:18 GMT

I didn't really have a chance to watch it completely, as the phone was ringing and Alix was talking to me and the food was cooking, so I will watch it again on Sunday with a better opinion, but my first impression was sorta of: "so what?" I never got how the threat came about, though I do know the guy who had the nutrino reactor was also an alien and the bad guy of the week...and I didn't get any sort of chemistry between Bakula and the pharmacologist.

You all know I love Bakula in QUANTUM LEAP, but for some reason he just isn't doing it for me here, though I desperately want him to be a great captain. I think that as Sam Beckett he displayed great range, and that as Archer, he's been sort of flat in his delivery--well, not flat, but "Johnny One-Note." He almost always seems to be speaking harshly, or is that in "captain tones?"...except to Porthos, and occasionally Trip. I'm also, frankly, getting tired of his attitude towards T'Pol. He goes into a conversation with her totally on the defensive, and it is getting somewhat tiresome...I actually find myself rooting for T'Pol to give him the "Spock Pinch" just to shut him up for a minute! Even in the "encounter" with the pharmacologist, he still "talked like a captain," if you know what I mean.

I thought Linda Parks (Hoshi), Billingsley (Phlox), Blalock (T'Pol) and Tripp were great, though...the actors are really developing their characters.

As for the plot, or what I got of it, I thought it was very, very, very ho-hum.

Second thoughts on Sunday.


For me, Archer is an awkward mixture
david g -- 16 Nov 2001, 14:52 GMT

He's alternately little-boy-winsome and burly and Wesley crushed w/Worf.

I think Bakula is an actor more comfortable with comedic acting...for instance, he wasnt bad faking out those suckerpunching Andorians...i didnt watch QL much, but i think there he go to apply his canine everymannish rubbery likability to an almost revuelike format that allowed him to play different characters all with the same comedically hangdoglike look...

but a Captain is a different matter entirely. i am relieved to find Archer less of a tyrant than he was in the premiere.

but he isnt much of anything else. he doesnt inspire trust, he isnt witty, he doesnt seem especially bright. so what we have is a strange and awkward mixture of overaged surfer dude and reactionary militia man. Bakula hasnt got the hang of the role, yet, but neither have TPTB.

david g

Some nice moments...
Fliteman -- 16 Nov 2001, 16:49 GMT

I've read a few of the posts above, but saw no mention of the Doctor. True, he wasn't in it for very long, but I'm used to him commenting on how interesting humans are in one way or another; But in this case, the simple, business-like interaction between him & T'Pol I thought was quite nice. It shows that in addition to his quirkiness, he can also be business like.

The translator/communicator problem the Captain had confuses me... I'd think if I was speaking english, and she was hearing her native language, she'd notice my words not matching my mouth. (I'll just have to overlook that for now.)

I 1/2-way wanted the aliens to be unaware of the problems they were causing, and to be sorry about it. It's great that Man is noble, but it would be nice to come across other aliens as concerned about other cultures as we are. We still wouldn't have to be friends, but it'd be nice to see them concerned.

And, on the babe-factor... Hoshi IS cute. T'pol... she has a strangely-shaped face. Maybe it's just the camera angles, but... she really DOES look kinda alien.


Re: Nice good TOS-like episode
Sherry -- 16 Nov 2001, 18:21 GMT

I'm with you about the stand-alone idea. This Enterprise isn't striving to reach a certain goal, as Voyager was. Meeting different peoples and visiting different planets and other space-marks, like last week's comet, is their main mission.

Ho-Hum indeed.
TKS -- 18 Nov 2001, 11:34 GMT

Please fellow nebbies do not flog me, but I have never been a fan of Captain Kirk, I never liked the character, far too bold and full of himself for me. I did like Spock and Dr. McCoy, and enjoyed their digs at each other. I don't know if McCoy was aware that the fact that Spock would respond to his remarks meant that McCoy made his point, and not Spock. I just found the irony delicious.

The episode was TOS-like in that it had a moral, just think of it as a mediocre Erin Brokovich, I'm not sure of the spelling. Captain Archer isn't much on preaching, but this society was close to industrialization, the woman scientist would have been comprible to Newton, or Kepler, but her scientific background is in medicine. They're just beyond the four humors. The indigenice population is close to poluting it's own atmosphere without having the outside influence of aliens do it for them, which is why the episode was weak for me anyway.

This episode was not about giving the pre-industrial aliens new technology, but someone else doing nasty things to the water. So Captain Archer to the rescue.

Let's not forget that these aliens were exposed to alien technology, the phaser fire in the street. What these people don't believe in witches. We may have improved sceintifically in the seventeeth century, but we still believed in witches, and executed them.

I guess they didn't think about that when, phaser's were firing, oh well, I guess they have much to learn "Archer".


Hey, Flite. In the EW article I read about ENT...
Virginnie -- 19 Nov 2001, 00:47 GMT

...that was one of the things mentioned--that Jolene was approached about taking the role because of the alien "look" to her face, particularly around the eyes.

I don't know if anyone else has read C.J. Cherryh's Foreigner series (two thumbs up), but the cover illustrations of the character Jago (a female alien) from the first two books remind me a little of Jolene.