The Coffee Nebula Board is for the discussion of Star Trek: Voyager and other sci-fi/cult shows. This is its Archive of episode discussions, top ten lists, fan fiction, and other miscellaneous musings.
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"Imagine it, thousands of inhabited planets at our fingertips. And we'll be able to explore those strange new worlds, and seek out new life and new civilizations. This engine will let us go boldly where no man has gone before." |
Terra Nova Directed by LeVar Burton Written by Rick Berman & Brannon Braga Strange Nova world, that has such creatures in it... Well, this one didn't knock my socks off, but it was an entertaining hour of television. Then again, I'm a TV junkie these days. Travis is still underwhelming me. He's a bit *too* enthusiastic with not quite enough personality. And at the end, I was thinking, "Wow, Archer fobbed off his paperwork on Mayweather and the Ensign thinks he got a treat. He's really naive!" Could T'Pol sounds any more wooden? Then again, I suppose that's the point. Good line -- Trip: History was never my best subject. Malcolm did a nice job with not too much to work with. I'm hoping we get a bit more in depth with him later on. The premise of the episode was interesting. Overall, I was left wanting a bit more than I got. I'm just a bit too tired to coherently state my thoughts at the moment. AC OT p.s. is the Nebula Buffy/Angel list defunct? No one's posted in ages. Was a new one formed? I was a little underwhelmed...(spoilers) This episode wasn't horrible, but it wasn't all that exciting either, although I did like the part where the shuttle collapsed some old tunnels and fell through. That was pretty unexpected. I fear that I am already a Trip/T'Pol junkie. I kept thinking, you know, this ep would be a whole lot better, if Trip was the one lying in the cave with a bullet in his leg, and T'Pol was standing over him, a smoking gun in her hand... ...and then I remembered that they did that episode already. In any event, there wasn't nearly enough snide Trip/T'Pol give and take in this ep. If I don't get my minimum weekly requirement of Trip/T'Pol sparring, I feel cheated! Still like the doctor muy mucho, and Reed has possibilities, although I would have been totally ticked off if my compadres had left me lying in a damp, dirty cave with a projectile lodged in my leg overnight. Archer and Phlox didn't even have the decency to leave him a box supper! All in all, meh. I am looking forward to the Andorian ep, though. Re: I was a little underwhelmed...(spoilers) Looking forward to Andorians, ditto! This episode wasn't bad. But I'm starting to get a suspicion. Is anyone else getting huge Deja Vu to TOS? Notice the focus on the abandoned bicycle, a la "Miri"? Here's my suspicion - I think Braga is finally getting around to watching TOS -- FOR THE FIRST TIME. And he's finding it very interesting and unique, and borrowing a lot of little touches figuring we won't remember. After all, heck, those episodes aired decades ago, right? Joyce Weyroun in blue with antenna (NIM) Oops, AC, we did form a new Buffy/Angel list. Because SuzyQ was inactive for so many months and only she could add new members. Mandy is in charge of the new list. Of course, SuzyQ showed up again but a week or two after we did this. I'll ask Mandy to add you to the new list. Actually, this month has been a record-breaker in terms of discussion because of the interesting events in season six and because of the syndicated repeats on F/X. Even long-time lurkers have been posting. I was actually enjoying it... ...for the most part until I knew how YAATE the ending would be. sigh. The Beyond Thunderdome seventy years later concept was neat--especially when I realized that indeed, the culture was made up of children survivors. I wish they'd have expanded on that. Unfortunately, Travis' scenes totally underused that potential. They could have broken him out there, had him ask about the music at least, made that music familiar to him as a child's song--something. I dunno, I agree that he's pretty much lost on me. I could have pretty much ignored that, though. I liked the character interaction for the most part. Everyone got a little bit to do, which was very good. And the cultural/psychological implications of human children growing up in caves and fending for themselves made me think, and I like that too. Unfortunely, most of it, in the end, ended up as a surface treatment. It nicked the edge of gaining some real depth, but suddenly seemed to avoid it. I can't explain that without another viewing. Maybe it was just me. But I was the most diappointed when they pushed the resolution (did we see one? I might have blinked there) out to the end and stuck in a Ah well. Andorian Incident is next week. I do look forward to that. Re: Braga and TOS He's been quoted in a recent article that he never watched TOS as a kid, and when he mentioned that to Roddenberry, Gene told him not to "start" because he wanted a fresh perspective. In recent years, however, Braga says he's watched all eps of TOS and that he's responsible for "many" allusions to TOS that we may find in "Enterprise". Perhaps the "bicycle" is one such allusion? D47 TERRA NOVA Meets "Logan's Run"? Thought it was neat (Accidental?) that the leader of the opposition was named "Logan" considering all the adults died. Of course, I don't understand "why" only the adults died from the radiation, but thats just me. An "okay" hour of TV, but much more I could not say. Interesting premise, but one that left too many interesting things on the table. It started out with "Mayweather's enthusiasm" so I figured it would be "the ep" that delved into his character. It did, but only superficially and only enough to bookend the teaser and closer. Then I thought it would be a Reed ep, since he was captured, sigh...no. At least the Captain was more Captainly... but as I watched him scale the cliff with more trepidation than skill, I wondered "why doesn't he ask the ship to transport him down there, or to at least transport a rope down to him?" An "okay" hour... like TNG it has potential but just hasn't capitalized upon it yet. Hopefully, it will. D47 My question is: How did Archer and the head Novan (bossanovan?) manage to carry a large man with a broken leg up the sides of a sheer pit that they nearly killed themselves just climbing down from? And like you, Deb, I wondered about calling for help. I was thinking, however, about Mayweather. Any shuttle has to be stocked with emergency and survival gear. "Mayweather, bring a 100 foot rope and an oxygen mask here immediately." The mask or other breathing apparatus would be so the guy wouldn't drown before rescue. And Mayweather could have helped pull the guy up from the top. Another problem that I had was the stupid rebellious colony scenario. Totally implausible. 200 people are sent by the Earth space agency to colonize a planet. Just a few years after getting there, they claim the *WHOLE* planet for themselves. And threaten to shoot down the next batch of colonists (just like themselves.) Jeez, those greedy bastards couldn't let another colony on the next continent? The history of colonies breaking away occurs after generations of exploitation. Early colonists always prayed for a new colony ship to arrive with supplies and fresh workers. (And many wanted to quit and return home.) I'm also pretty sure that a gene pool of only 200 is way too small to prevent serious problems with inbreeding. Looked like "Friendship One" warmed over. (nim) Thanks, Terry! NIM But I really liked Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome As usual, it was the follow-through that left me shrugging. And... ...I forgot to say, I liked Friendship One a lot more. ENTERPRISE and "The Lost Colony" This episode was not compelling, it was just OK, like all have pointed out. Nothing exciting, not even the guest humans. But, compared to a lot of TNG's first year episodes, this episode was good. Want to address Terry's comment on lack of rebellion in newly formed colonies. I must disagree. In Virginia, around Williamsburg, there was a settlement established in the 1600. Within 10 years all members had either died or abandoned the site. Today, the leading theory behind "The Lost Colony" as it is called, is that discord broke out between factions (has to do with Guy Fawkes blowing up Parlament). The researchers have found arsenic in the remains of the buried colonist, leading them to believe one group poisened the other. So, yes, there can be fights among groups of new colonists. Di AC, the BUFFY fans here have been busy posting via the mail group. You're not on it? Hey, who's in charge of it, anyway? Is it SuzyQ, Terry? Let's invite her! Mindy Re: Braga and TOS Not only that, Deb, but he actually said he's REALLY enjoying and appreciating TOS and he really gets what all the fuss was about!!!!!! Hmm, there is hope for the man! (Although I have never really been a Braga-basher, he has said some things that have annoyed me.) Mindy TERRA NOVA Well I liked this one but it did nothing to soothe my fears.... 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 The budget of this show never ceases to amaze me. Lets drop a shuttle down a shaft! Why? Cuz it LOOKS cool and we have some FX cash left in the budget! LOL! I kept thinking to myself, poor Andromeda after the FX disaster of IT'S tunnel collapse and this one wasn;t even important to Terra Nova's STORY! I enjoyed the story, they did tip their hands a little and the ending was predictable, we HATE you! Oh nice pics, we LOVE you! Sure it was predictable in the end but it was a nice kind of predictable. Disapointing that they didn't try anything new but what was there was fun. Once gain i'm loving Phlox bad makeup and all. He may look like him but he is NOT Neelix! Reed got a chance to stand out but i knew he was going to get a purple heart when he went in ahead. I've decided that Archer is bothering me. Oh i still think he was great in Broken Bow, but there he wasn't Captain but a wide eyed explorer. Now that he is Captain he is hitting snags. I'm not sure what it is but Archer is rubbing me the wrong way. I hate the bad mistakes he makes and then i hate it when he gets all hissy over them! His Captain style just isn't a good one. But there is more and i can't place it. Anyway, this was a disapointment from the great Promo but there is still some good stuff there. Not a keeper but an above average episode. And where the hell is HOSHI??? One lousy scene? C+ Eric The story was OK but derivative: Descendants of an attack ("Blood Fever") and radiation poisoning ("Friendship One") living in caves and attacking the away team. Adults died but the children lived and developed their own variation of English (the TOS episode where the children called adults "grups"), though here at least the kids survived to have their own children. Distrust between crew and natives until they work together to rescue a native ("Basics II"). This place isn't safe but Starfleet can relocate the inhabitants (the TNG episode with Worf's brother, among others). From the previews I had expected something more along the lines of current archaeologists' discoveries about the "Lost Colony" at Roanoke. Or the colonists had intermarried with aliens and the Novans were their descendants. General Observations: Two references for Voyager viewers - the title ("Terra Nova" means "New Earth") and what happened to Amelia Earhart. Looks like Mayweather is going to be this crew's amateur historian. Hand held flashlights - how awkward they seem after the wrist beacons. And they called them flashlights, not beacons or torches. Are we going to get more obviously American terms, like wrench instead of spanner? Nits: The children survived but the adults succumbed to radiation? I always thought it was the other way around, that kids are more susceptible. Too many characters' names start with "T" - sometimes I'm still not sure who someone's talking about/to until I see the actor. Eric, I agree with you about Archer All other Captains, love them or hat them, had a strong command. You knew who the Captain was on the ship. Archer is the "guy" who happens to run the ship. You could walk onto the bridge and if he wasn't sitting in the big chair, you would have to ask, who's captain. Bakula is playing Archer like a scout patrol leader, one of the guys,like an "everyman." What he has yet to show is something that sets him apart from the rest of the crew. Something that says "he's the captain of a great ship." Di I also agree with Eric about Archer He doesn't have the demeanor or the bark of all the other captains. Perhaps they've done research showing that folks want someone more like themselves as captain, rather than the god-like figures previous skippers have been presented as being. But yes, it's hard to put a finger on it. But all the captains took a while to get comfortable in the big chair. I have a theory about that. Archer does not appear to have a designated executive officer to run interference for him with the crew. T'Pol is his science officer and occasionally takes command at his direction, but she's clearly not the XO and would lack the skills for it. I would imagine that Trip has too much to do being Chief Engineer to be XO, as well, so I think Archer's acting as his own XO, which brings him a lot closer personally to the members of his crew. More observations Looks like Mayweather is going to be this crew's amateur historian. Chalk that up as a point in Mayweather's favor! And they called them flashlights, not beacons or torches. Are we going to get more obviously American terms, like wrench instead of spanner? I think "flashlight" is a more familiar term--to Americans, anyway--in the present. It was another case of this Starfleet not being as far removed from contemporary viewers as that in the other series. Of course, the terminology won't have the same effect on all viewers! Too many characters' names start with "T" - sometimes I'm still not sure who someone's talking about/to until I see the actor. I've been confused over the same thing. Maybe it'll be easier once the characters become more distinctive to the viewers. (Soon, please!) Kirk didn't have an XO and Shatner set the standard for Trek Captains. Even real life Navy Captains I know have a "command" personality that sets them apart from the rest of the crew and other officers, and I mean that in a positive sense. Archer is likable, but there is just something that's missing. Di Hmmmm, I too wondered about that gene pool thing Terry... And finally decided that Logan must have realized the ONLY way he'd get someone to settle down with HIM was to limit the supply of available partners! D47 That's a completely different scenario, Di. I assume that you're talking about the Roanoke colony (with the tree carved with Croatoa?). That was internal dissension (if true). I'll bet that the final survivors were praying for a ship from England to show up. Terra Nova was a small successful colony suddenly deciding that they wanted to jump from 1620 to 1776 in a four or five years. And become xenophobic and against anti-immigrant overnight. Puh-leez. Bossanovan Re: "Presence". I understand the "command presence" you are missing, and I wonder if its (?) on purpose. Archer IS in command of a great ship from Earth standards, and yet he and his people are truly just babes in the woods from a space exploration viewpoint. Its one thing to blow into town when you're flying the flagship of a fleet well versed in first contact and final combat, but that's not what we have here. We have a guy flying the first, the only Earth ship capable of even approaching warp 5. A ship so green that he needs an alien science officer and an alien Doctor to sign on to help him out of a jam. When you're this "new", its probably a good thing you keep your natural Captain arrogance under check. The "Captain" presence is saved for your crew... showing your weapons officer you're not afraid to take the lead in a tunnel (which I think Archer did when they first entered it), keeping your cool and calling your science officer for assistance when you get turned around in the dark, leading the negotiating team back underground to seek out your lost man. Even allowing your Ensign to have dinner with "the big 3" as a perk for doing good work on his away mission. From that standpoint I think Archer did better tonight than in other outings. Will things improve further, as he gets his feet wet? Gosh, I hope so! As I've mentioned before... I cut Picard a LOT of slack in "his" first year... so I'm sure I can do the same for Archer for the rest of the season. As long as something more interesting doesn't come along in "reel life"... and as long as the doomsayers in "real life" aren't truly prophetic. D47 Talk about a tough crowd! All- Okay. I admit it. I really liked this episode. In fact, from start to finish, I was interested in the outcome. Yes, we've seen parts before. Yes, they could have done more with Mayweather. Yes, I'm confused on my T characters. Yes, that the colonists would be "saved" was inevitable. Still...this is the first show (including the pilot) where I was enchanted with their enthusiasm and not rolling my eyes. Although it doesn't have the subtleties and depth of a 5th-7th season of Voyager, TNG, etc... it was pretty good for a rookie. My two cents, Sue_B Re: ...the stupid ordinary ending...why, oh, why, did they go for the ordinary and expected? They could have gone for a refusal by the no-mans, or the no-mans saying, thanks, Cap'n, you've done enough, we'll get there ourselves... But aside from that, I thought all the actors did a wonderful job, and that it seems that by the time they filmed this, all of them were really getting comfortable and into their roles... I think this show is A LOT better than TNG was in its first year, even with its "ordinary, no balls" ending. Mindy Who IS second in command? From all the pre-show publicity, I thought it was T'Pol, but watching the show, I'm thinking it's Trip. Does anyone know? Someone has to be second in command, but who is it? A tough crowd indeed! Aww, come on, folks. Such negativity! Enterprise isn't that bad. They're just getting started. This is only the 5th(?) episode and I think they're doing a pretty good job. I liked this episode and I'll try and get back here later to tell you why. Vickie Re: "Presence". I'm not sure not knowing what you're doing really effects your "command presence". It's a funny thing, that indiscribable thing that makes people have faith in other people. Kirk had it in spades. Spock had it and Scotty had it. Bones didn't. Sulu had it, Chekov didn't. Picard had it, Riker had it and I think Troi did, she just didn't use it. Geordi really doesn't, he just makes up for it in skill. Worf has it, Data doesn't. Sisko had it and of course Kira had it. Dax had it, Ezri didn't. Janeway had it in spades also. Chakotay had it, Paris had it, Torres had it. Harry didn't and I don't think Seven did either. And, as much as he played at it, the Doc did not have it. I don't think Tuvok had it either. It is indefineable I suppose, and it is probably a little individual. Someone you would view as having "command presence" I might not. Archer just doesn't seem to have it. Trip does and T'Pol does, that's all I can tell at the moment. Okay, this is just my opinion of course, the rest of you probably have completely different takes on it. As I said, it's very individual. Shadda OK, I'm back One thing I've been meaning to comment on over the last couple of episodes is the way that Enterprise pleases me most through its smaller touches. Mostly, rather than being taken by grander themes or broad plot lines, I get my enjoyment out of little comments or brief character interactions. It seems contradictory to say this, because we certainly haven't had any shortage of big action scenes or broad statements of morals and philosophies. But still, Enterprise feels somehow smaller and more intimate to me than Voyager or TNG. One comment about Terra Nova before I run off again: I liked the not-quite-standard-English dialect spoken by the Terra Novans. It think it made sense for them to have developed their own unique dialect, particularly since the adults didn't survive the radiation poisoning. I liked it in Nemesis, too, although I know most of you didn't. Vickie I liked it in Nemesis, too. I just didn't like the fact that the young guest actors weren't very good at it. The non-standard dialect and the theme of the ep reminded me a lot of Miri. I think they were saying.. "Novans"... as is Terra Nova is our home, the way some people say "Terrans" instead of "Earthlings". D47 Re: "Presence". redux. Perhaps you are right. I was trying to "cut Archer some slack" by suggesting why he doesn't exude the "presence" we've come to expect. Troi had it? I liked Troi, but I'll have to think about that one. I do agree that the EMH never "really" seemed to have it, for all his emoting. D47 That makes sense They're the "new ones" instead of the "earthlings" (although I seriously doubt Sherry A tough crowd and Peg's Theory I think we're tough because this is the 5th incarnation of Trek and the fourth consecutive series. As I've said, I disliked TNG in the first season, never got into DS9. I'm definitely hoping to see more of the TOS type comradrie in this series as well as some good scifi. Now if we could just keep these people out of caves. Okay, now my theory. Stop it!!! I hear the "collective" groan out there. So stop me if you've already discussed this one: Is there a common thread since DS9 regarding the women. Is there a same male producer/writer/ whatever? Because here's what I think: Some "common thread male" in DS9/Voyager/ Enterprise has an issue. He was the unpopular kid in school (and maybe a science nerd) with a bad crush on the most popular girl in school who either didn't notice him or held him in disdain. Sooooooo, he makes these unattainable/ice queen type women (Kira, B'Elanna, Seven, T'Pol) with killer bods and Walter Mitty's himself into different roles (dashing pilot, stoic handsome first officer, nondescript security officer) and nails said ice queen as one of his imaginary personnas. Talk amongst yourselves. Friendship Two A very mixed episode, in part because it was so derivative of a RECENT Voyager episode, no less. I did enjoy some parts of it, I thought the cave chase scene was pretty exciting and Malcolm never ceases to amaze me. The idea of a lost colony was a good one, and the crew's first arrival at the abandoned site had some spooky aspects... but... the whole angry colonists turn was disappointing. Again there was an interesting idea in Archer feeling the pressure to make contact with humans as a way of proving that he's ready to do it with aliens, but it didn't get enough attention. I don't really like Archer all that much, but a character who's having a harder time getting off the ground seems to be Mayweather. The pretty scenery was diverting and the episode had its moments, but in all, it was too familiar and too haphazard to be enjoyable over all. Jason But isn't that what the settlers called their home? Terra Nova. I suspect the colonists started calling themselves "Novans" soon after landfall... if not as soon as they blasted off from Earth on their 9 year journey. The kids probably got used to calling themselves that because Mom and Dad had used the term so often. D47 Re: Peg's Theory Well, Peg, this one's not quite as compelling as the Michael Eisner World Domination Conspiracy theory, but it does make sense. Vickie Terra Olda Boring and predictable episode that knocks off the grim but superior FRIENDSHIP ONE. still, i like Phlox, esp his sardonic physical parody of Archer's hands-up routine...i am wondering why the show seems so reluctant to give us much of Malcolm, cuz he's so likable. in fact, i am wondering why Hoshi seems to get so little screen time as well... So far, Trip, Phlox, Hoshi, Reed, and TPol are characters i really like...but the rest is dross. I found the shaft escape sequence pictorially beautiful, and the effect of the pod sinking into the earth was very well done. I also liked the simplicity of the solution--just move to the other side of the planet. nice. Archer seems to be dithering. I dont hate him anymore, but Bakula seems alternately schoolboy earnest and rabidly aged jock...rabid. it's an unsettling combo. david g I was thinking of NEMESIS, too--you got your glimpses on it as well i liked the Nemesislike patois in Terra Nova, too, Vickie. dg Im a fan of MIRI, myself, Ginny! GRUMPS! Diane, what's your theory behind Roanoke?! did you happen to catch the PBS SECRETS OF THE DEAD? it was awesome. dg say what you will about her, Janeway was always clearly in charge. NIM Sure is! It's interesting, and maybe... ...significant in view of the colony developed, that they were in the habit of using the "new" part of the name. They came to see themselves as a new, unique entity more than "just" an extension of Earth. I must be feeling Peg's influence, theorizing
That's because this theory doesn't involve animatronics. Unless you count Porthos...or would that be animal-tronics? I don't know...seems like one of the geeks--Braga--ended up with one of the queens--Ryan. And I really don't think of Kira as an ice queen. She was tough, combative, judgmental, and prone to violence, but also affectionate and passionate. Re: Diane, what's your theory behind Roanoke?! My theory, who knows. The informatoin presented holds up to what was going on along the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. I have a book "Pirates of the Chesapeake" which is more about the history of the bay. There was a lot of hate during the founding of Maryland and Virginia. Here in Maryland, the original Catholic settlement, St. Mary's, was destroyed within one year of its founding. Priests and parishiners murdered. Many went underground. So, just based on the history of the area, I do believe that the Lost Colony story might be true. The PBS series was very good. I thought, though, that it was more like something from The Learing Channel or Discovery Channel. Di Re: Roanoke?! There was a book published a few months ago regarding what happened to the colonists. Of course, I can't recall the title or author! But it was quite interesting -- looking at evidence along the lines of a mystery. I believe the author's assertion was that the surviving colonists were forced into slavery by the natives. AC Re: Diane, what's your theory behind Roanoke?! St. Mary's is the site of the ONLY battle of the English Civil War fought on foreign ground. Re: That's because this theory doesn't involve animatronics. That's another part of my theory. The woman is "unapproachable" but just a "tiger" in the sack. That's part of the fantasy where Kira and B'Elanna are concerned. | ||
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TERRA NOVA Discussion Area...
"get the protagonists to trust each other in a time of selflessness" scene. I would much rather seen more brains at work in this ep. I would much rather have seen mama Novan kick some butt.
Yeah, it did, big time.
, so the concept did appeal to me.
good one Terry (NIM, didn't see the ep, can't comment)