The Coffee Nebula Board is for the discussion of Star Trek: Voyager and other sci-fi/cult shows. This is its Archive of episode discussions, top ten lists, fan fiction, and other miscellaneous musings.


Strange New World

SNW was a mixed bag for me.
Terry -- 11 Oct 2001, 02:16 GMT

I thought the first half was boring at its best and ludicrous at its worst.

Archer's no explorer, he's just a frelling tourist! Wait six days and study the sensor readings? No way! He and Trip are so busy hanging over Merriweather's shoulders on the way down that it was a wonder he didn't crash. I hope the first men to a new planet aren't idiots like this.

The first being from Earth to set foot on a new planet is Archer's dog? That one had me yelling "C'mon!" It wasn't even played for laughs. And they just let Portos run off into the bushes and play.

I found it strange that these intrepid explorers aren't thrilled at a strange, new world. No, they're overjoyed because it looks *exactly* like the planet (Earth) they just left behind.

The show didn't get interesting until Tucker went on his bad spore trip. :-P T'Pol was very Vulcan in this episode. She was very logical and even pulled off her first nerve pinch. Okay, it was a weak pinch but give her time.

You know, even I'm getting tired of all this Vulcan bigotry. But Trip is worse in an hysterical way than Archer ever was. Mind-altering chemicals or no. Archer is more annoying patronizing towards T'Pol. Usually at the exact same time as he's doing something totally stupid.

Ratings this episode:

Archer :disagree:

T'Pol :agree:

Trip :disagree:

Hoshi, Phlox: mild :agree:

Merriweather: Harry Kim without the charisma

Reed: incomplete

This weird day just got weirder.
Nina -- 11 Oct 2001, 02:28 GMT

Terry, we are as one.

What he said. Practically word for word!

This is the sign of the end times. (NIM)
Terry -- 11 Oct 2001, 02:35 GMT

What next? Eric decides he prefers mature women? Deb thinks Janeway was overrated? Ginny loves Tom's blue eyes? Seven and T'Pol wear flats and muu'muus? Dogs and cats living together?

Shades of Darkover
CAM -- 11 Oct 2001, 03:22 GMT

The pollen comes on the wind and everyone has visions.

Strange New World...that has such people in it.
Ginny -- 11 Oct 2001, 03:44 GMT

I was sure the title came from the classic Trek prologue ("to explore strange new worlds"), until I saw the episode, and then I realized that it just had to be from Shakespeare's "The Tempest". Kind of nice to have that kind of literary reference in titles for the new series.

Well, apparently I'm not as discriminating as Terry and Nina, because I really enjoyed this ep. I thought it was very foolish not to take T'Pol's advice about the probe, and it could easily have been worked into the episode in a telescoped timeline, but I'm sure that the writer wanted to emphasize the almost child-like fascination that the crew had with this new planet. (Miranda, anyone?) And once I got past Archer's incredible short-sightedness, I got a kick out of the away team's enthusiasm.

--I also liked the ghost story around the campfire.

--Funniest moment? Trip and Travis and the ear-burrowing critter from Ceti Alpha V. (Or is it Ceti Alpha VI?) I have expected one of them to give a genuine Chekhov girlie scream.

--T'Pol's stock just keeps going up. I thought having her lapse into Vulcan was an excellent concession to her supposedly superior ability to deal with the effects of the chemical, plus it gave Hoshi something to do. I also liked the fact that we get a hint of Archer and Trip's past association and that Archer was able to resolve the stand-off, because he knew how to reach out to Trip, even when he was delusional.

--I want to know more about Trip's Vulcan teacher and why his paranoia manifested itself in such a virulent distrust of T'Pol. The one thing I was most disappointed in with this episode was the denouement. I really thought we'd either learn something more about Trip and T'Pol, or the extreme duress of the situation would have created an added strain in their relationship.

--I figured out why Connor has chosen to channel Tommy Lee Jones. He kind of looks like him from a certain angle.

--I really thought we were going to see a John Woo moment with Trip and T'Pol, but, alas, no. Wouldl have been cool, though, to see her flying through the air in slo-mo with a phaser in both hands.

--For the second week in a row, Trip kept his clothes on. Phooey. However, I hold out great hope for a little skin next week. Of course, that skin may be sporting a few extra nipples...

--Trip seems to be getting the lion's share of the drama, doesn't he?

Well, I'm obviously not much of a Shakepeare scholar, am I?
Ginny -- 11 Oct 2001, 03:50 GMT

The quote is "Brave new world, that has such people in it." Oh, well, just ignore what I said about the title.

Moi? (NIM)
displaced nebbie -- 11 Oct 2001, 04:13 GMT




Aldous Huxley is very relieved.
Terry -- 11 Oct 2001, 04:15 GMT

He really thought he screwed the pooch. :-)

Does Trip have ANY redeeming qualities?
voyager fan -- 11 Oct 2001, 06:17 GMT

Oh yes, someone mentioned his half naked massage scene.

Well that aside, I'm not really liking Trip. Even though he was supposedly delusional, he's coming across as a bigot and a bully, not to mention headstrong and stubborn. Did he ever even apologize to T'Pol?? I remember Paris started out kind of snide and too smooth, a guy with a chip on his shoulder, but that didn't work out so he turned into Americana boy next door, which suited him much better. Somewhere I think I read that they were envisioning him being like that guy on ER, the George Clooney character. But that character started out as something fundamentally likeable, so it was easier to tolerate his bad-boy-ness. Well hopefully Trip will evolve in to something a little nicer.

I guess this whole Vulcan v. Starfleet thing is supposed to be like the Maquis v. Starfleet thing, adding tension to the show, but I wish they would put it to rest already. It just seems like a bunch of guys ganging up on T'Pol. Who I like, and I think is doing a much better job in the last 2 episodes of seeming like a vulcan rather than a 7 of 9 clone.

I guess people on Voyager used to get on Tuvok's case too, but without such negativity and contempt. I just don't like such blanket racism on Enterprise.

The episode was just okay. Basically, Archer jumps the gun to check out a new planet (making Janeways most impulsive actions seem reasoned and cautious), thereby endangering the lives of his crew, who inhale spores and become delusional. Not too exciting.

I did like the way we see the lower decks reacting to the planet first, and the crewman's efforts to befriend T'Pol.

Archer seems a lot like Janeway, except his gender. Its interesting. Are the shared characteristics supposed to be more acceptable because he's a GUY? Some of the parallels I see, somewhat impulsive and headstrong, protective of crew (like with Hoshi last week and trying to get the crew out of the planet in that storm in this episode), principled (last week's episode), able to make decisions quickly, hands on (on the shuttle to get the crew), you get the drift. They both even have kind of nasal voices.

Okay, enough for now. Angela

I hate to have to say this...
Joyce H -- 11 Oct 2001, 07:22 GMT

But this show is boring.

I'm trying to give it a chance, but this was the third episode, and it's BORING. When I wincingly realized they were going to do yet ANOTHER riff on the 'alien substance makes people paranoid' plot, I kept waiting for the plot twist that was going to make it different, and the twist never came.

Spores make people act crazy, antibiotics make them better. Did we learn anything new about the characters? Are the characters even interesting?

It looks like they're so determined to recreate TOS (Archer-Kirk, Trip-Bones, T'Pol-Spock) that they're even reusing the plots. Hey guys, TOS was exciting because it was NEW.

Sigh. You can't go home again...

There was a lot of suspense...
D'Alaire -- 11 Oct 2001, 11:42 GMT the beginning, when I wondered which lower deck crewman would get it. I immediately liked Cutler. I hope they bring her back. She looks interesting--and I sort of like the fact that she at least tried to have some smalltalk, albeit futile, with T'Pol. Novakovich (snort, good name) looked a little much like Billy, so I thought he would be the one to fall.

Sure enough...Rockhead. To TPTB's credit, they didn't kill him. Does it count if they almost kill him after flipping him out?

But I really liked the beginning--their wonder at seeing the world out of the window. That was nice, and I'm glad they took the time to do that.

I think I share the same problem with Joyce, that the show isn't really making the same kinds of strides with developing the characters. It's a bit much like a situation drama--and worse is that you can see sometimes the characters straining to come out.

T'Pol comes with a lot of character baggage, so she's easier to interpret--and, yes, is getting better by the ep.

Archer...snort! Terry already nailed that one.

Trip...well, it doesn't really matter what he did in the ep, because we had hypo-reset button. We now know what he does when he's on 'shrooms and that he's done it before when exposed to deleterious elements.

We know that Mayweather tells campfire stories. Neeeext.

Once again, Porthos was exhuberant and joyous to watch in his romping adventure. He's soooo cute. :) And I admit, "Where no man's gone before" did give me a chuckle. :)

On the plot: Yeah, it ws a nice little ghost story in itself. Predictable--all you needed was the reason why they getting mediaeval--but well done for what they had. I liked T'Pol's reverting to her native language and Hoshi translating. Another nice touch. But Archer's plan--though the best way out of it, and nicely followed through by T'Pol--was more predictable than the rest.

But nothing all that new or surprising came out of it. No standout characterization (aside from the eager crewmen, who I couldn't help but hope more for).

But I was able to watch it, and I can say I liked it all right. I guess I'm still hungry for more, read deeper, characterization--much as I might be ultimately disappointed in that desire. But I'm still willing to wait a bit for that, especially as long as I have the feeling it is in there somewhere.

Eric -- 11 Oct 2001, 14:33 GMT

Ok, first things first.... Andromeda has done a amazing service to Enterprise. Thanks to the horrible season two opening i am starting to really be thankful and even LIKE "Faith of the Heart". It may not be the best song ever but it DOES match the kick butt images on the screen and it actualy adds something to the whole mix.

Dear God Andromeda made me a Faith of the Heart FAN!!!!!!!!!

Ok now on to the episode

I liked it! The amazing thing this series can do is take old Trek ideas and make them new!

This show had some real growth for everybody involved. Trip got the biggest boost since we got him away from Archer for awile.

Surprisingly T'Pol also got a boost since they finaly let her be a real character and not a object of ridicule.

Hoshi didn't have much to do but she was shown happily doing her job and doing it well.

Archer didn't have much this time but that was ok. I think he is doing a very god job so far.

Mayweather we finaly got to see and well....ok he can go back to lurking on the show. Not impressed.

Porthos was even cuter this week! They need to double his dog biscuits he is doing great! Where no dog has gone before!

Phlox is starting to surprise me. I'm liking this guy, even though the god awful makeup!

The FX continue to RULE.

While Male redshirt did not impress me the female Pixie RULED! (She also shows up on Wolf Lake as a lounge singer! Hubba-hubba! :D ) I wanna see her again!

There is life on this show!

I give it a 8/10


Sure, he's stubborn and hard-headed and...
Virginnie -- 11 Oct 2001, 14:56 GMT

...obviously harbors some deep-seated resentment and distrust of Vulcans, but he's also enthusiastic and good-humored (when he isn't delusional) and loyal to his commanding officer (even when he is delusional). Plus, I love him and T'Pol together. Did anyone else get the feeling during Trip's escalating paranoia that T'Pol really, *really* wanted to shoot him and that it was only her iron Vulcan control that kept her from blasting him into space dust?

Re: Does Trip have ANY redeeming qualities?
Malcom -- 11 Oct 2001, 17:20 GMT

Bravo! Wish I'd said it, Angela. These folks just don't make my socks go up and down.

Yes, I got that feeling, too. NIM
Nina -- 11 Oct 2001, 18:00 GMT

Too soon to do a "messing with the crews' minds" episode.
D -- 11 Oct 2001, 18:18 GMT

The plot is inevitable, but it works better further into a series, when the characters are more established. At least we didn't get any dead red shirts.

I always wondered where the term "M Class Planet" came from; didn't realize it was from a Vulcan designation. Interesting that T'Pol only used the nerve pinch when everyone else was unconscious. Could it be one of the things the Vulcans don't want the humans to know about yet?

The converstaion between Hoshi & T'Pol - second time they've talked in Vulcan. Could TPTB be setting it up so that they converse in Vulcan when they need to keep plans or orders secret, sort of like the Navaho (?) speakers in WWII?

I got the same feeling
Sherry -- 11 Oct 2001, 18:19 GMT

Trip ought to realize that he's lucky it was a Vulcan holding that phaser!

Terry's right: a mixed bag
Vickie -- 11 Oct 2001, 19:14 GMT

There were lots of little things I liked in SNW and a few big things I disliked. I'll hit some of the Likes first, because that's more fun.

I liked the dog. I can't help it, he's so cute! Like everybody else, I laughed at "...where no man has gone before."

I liked the transporter malfunction, although I did feel sorry for Leaf Boy. :-) I like the way they're still working the bugs out of the new technology.

I liked the Spaceghost stories around the campfire.

I loved the enthusiasm and wonder over the Strange New World.

I liked Archer's solution to the problem.

I thought T'Pol was good this week.

I love the way these people are so imperfect - just like humanoids ought to be.


Enthusiasm is one thing, but abandonment of all good judgement is another. Come on, Captain Archer, unmanned probes aren't really just for sissys.

I don't like this Vulcan-as-parent, Earthling-as-child dynamic we keep seeing. I hope it goes away soon.

A comment:

This anti-Vulcan attitude we keep seeing isn't admirable, but it is, IMO, understandable. We keep seeing the Vulcans portrayed as the responsible, all-knowing parent and the Earthlings as the rebellious teenagers. Put that dynamic on top of our natural xenophobia (which I'm sure will still be around in 100 years) and a little (or a lot) of mistrust and/or hostility is guaranteed.

WRT Tripp's anti-Vulcan attitude, most everyone has already agreed that Tripp is the Dr. McCoy of Enterprise. How many times did we see McCoy go off on Spock? TPTB may be trying to copy that, although personally I think they've gone a little overboard.


Re: Too soon to do a "messing with the crews' minds" episode.
Sherry -- 11 Oct 2001, 19:34 GMT

I agree: abnormality from the characters' personalities would have been more effective later, when we knew their NORMAL personalities better.

Good points on T'Pol! I think the nerve pinch is probably one of those things the Vulcans are keeping secret--both because they're being secretive with the humans, and because there are times when it may very well be an advantage if it's unexpected. Like when they need to stun someone for a crucial moment...

T'Pol and Hoshi's speaking Vulcan was well done, a smart tactic under the circumstances. I hadn't thought of the Navajo Code Talkers in World War II until you suggested it, but that's a great idea. It would be a clever strategy, plus a strength to both T'Pol and Hoshi's distinctive contribution.


And yet, that's what they all do
Joyce H -- 11 Oct 2001, 20:54 GMT

The Naked Time was TOS's fourth aired episode, while The Naked Now was TNG's second aired episode. It seems silly to do the 'alien substance makes the crew act weird' story before we're familiar enough with the crew to know how they normally behave! But with TOS and TNG, the acting weird at least involved characters revealing things about themselves that we might not learn otherwise - something this episode didn't do, IMO.

This one underwhelmed me...
AC -- 11 Oct 2001, 20:55 GMT

And not just because my local UPN station's reception kept blinking in and out. The story just seemed rather lackluster.

There were things I liked, however --

Porthos on the away mission. I have a terrible vision, however, of the poor pooch introducing something into the environment that will ultimately lead to the planet's destruction.

The baseball caps that the crew wears sometimes. It's a nice bit of costuming that serves as a reminder that it's only a century and a half after modern times.

Mayweather's ghost story.

And the female redshirt-who-survived was nice. It's bugging the heck out of me, since I know I've seen the actress on other shows but can't think where. She has a nice charismatic quality.

Aside from that? It didn't really hold my attention. And I'm a regular TV junkie these days! So here's hoping next week is an improvement.


Voyager waited until Season Two, at least
Nina -- 11 Oct 2001, 22:23 GMT

for "Persistence of Vision." Not an alien substance, but delusions a-plenty! I just looked it up, because I could have sworn it came earlier...but nope, second season.

But you've put your finger on why it was such a problem last night. It didn't tell us much, if anything, we didn't know already about the characters. At least, nothing interesting.

Re: And yet, that's what they all do
Sue_B -- 12 Oct 2001, 00:20 GMT

The whole second half of the episode I kept thinking....ahhhh the Naked Now requisite episode.

Missed opportunities

(Please forgive me if I repeat other's observations....I'm short on time and didn't get to all messages before posting).:

1) Crew development. Got a little bit of Trip's underlying paranoia but not strong enough to make it a real character trait.

2) A lessons learned/guilt session for Archer. Gee, maybe we'd better establish some protocols like T'Pol suggested. Perhaps we should watch a planet for 24hrs and send down at least one probe. In the later Trek's we had a whole series of Away Team protocols. This was an opportunity to watch a few of the rules being written. Nothing too out of character but really...a camping trip on an alien planet the first night??????

Nice touches:

1) Non-lethal transporter accident. Very cool.

2) Doctor guilt....took him down a peg and he showed he cared.

3) Lower deck crew...early on!

In general I'm happy with the episode but not glued to my seat.

My thoughts, Sue_B

And not just from McCoy, either.
Ginny -- 12 Oct 2001, 05:05 GMT

There is still a lot of general prejudice against Vulcans in Kirk's day, as Balance of Terror and Galileo 7 clearly show. Why wouldn't humans who live a 100 years earlier and have to deal with Vulcans on a seriously unlevel playing field not feel resentful and suspicious?

I guess I'm just hearing the beat of a different drummer--I enjoyed this episode a lot, I look forward to any scene in which Trip and T'Pol share screen time, and I'm already tired of the gratuitous "Look at Porthos--isn't he cute?" shots. The dog does not belong on a spaceship, and he most certainly should not be allowed to wonder freely on an alien planet. In fact, I see a first contact situation coming up involving a carnivorous alien and a Porthos-burger.

Janey -- 12 Oct 2001, 06:04 GMT

I don't want to restate too much of what has already been said so:

T'Pol is getting better and better.

Send Porthos home. Cute but come on.

Strip Trip or give him more than the Vulcan hater.

Bring Cutler back.

Protocols, what an idea!

Cool transport problem.

Phlox rocks.

Not great, not bad. This was more of a mid-season slide by episode rather than a series momentum builder. They really need to step it up a bit. I am aching for a kick me in the pants rocking good episode. Soon. Please.

"Challenge your preconceptions, or they will challenge you."
Deb47 -- 12 Oct 2001, 12:32 GMT

Well, my preconception of this ep after skimming this thread was "SNW's reeks", and needless to say I approached it with trepidation last night.


I still haven't become enamored with Archer, but I think I'm understanding why "Enterprise" doesn't light my rocket yet.

Its not the Captain, or just his antiVulcan viewpoint, its the balance.

TPTB seem confused by the timeperiod they've picked for this show.

Everything is new and strange, so the crew must act different from the away teams of 2 centuries ahead. They must plow headlong into a survey mission like the greenest greenhorns, and when they gets the chance to walk on that foreign planet to "explore" half the team doesn't "explore" at all. They just take a stroll.

But they're not that green. Travis has lived in space his whole life, and visited other planets. They must know the potential of danger and how to protect themselves. They must have some sort of preset plan on how to survey a planet/meet new people. They must have had many simulations on this exact problem when they were in training for this ship's mission. Heck, we know they had simulations on mind altering substances.

So, why the complete lack of "protocol" when it comes to discovering new worlds?

Doesn't make sense, except to say "well, THIS is why we do things by the book NOW, because someone made a major mistake before."


Problem is, TPTB also acknowledge this crew "isn't" that green. I think that's why Porthos" had the honor of running about on the planet first.

Things I liked?

Well, getting back to the "so that's where it comes from" idea, I liked the nod to origin of words this week. "Minshara class planet"... "Phaser"...

I liked the use of the Vulcan neck pinch, and the fact that no one knows it exists yet. ("Why is my neck sore?" ;-))

I really liked T'Pol this week.

I liked the fact that in his delusion, when he was ready to split T'Pol in half with the phase pistol... Trip was sidetracked by a favored old teacher from 10th grade. Mr Vellick. A "gosh" VULCAN!

I cringed at the way the Captain left the Doctor to stew in his own juices, after he admitted he didn't do a submolecular scan.

Gee, if the Captain had followed some of T'Pol's protocols, maybe he would have discovered some of the dangers of the place before he shuttled down there.

Hey, they're both new at this, I don't mind the errors, I do miss the acknowledgment that there was plenty of blame to go around.

Oh well, will just chalk that up to being green as a Captain, too.

I didn't understand why they could beam the med kit into the cave, but couldn't use the transporter to beam them out. The winds certainly weren't a problem "in there" so we wouldn't have to worry about leafpeople a second time.

I liked the Vulcan language being used to fake out Trip, and the fact that Hoshi has obviously learned some of T'pol's nuances. "She says Commander Trip is going to kill her, and I don't think she's hallucinating." (Thereabouts)

I don't see this as "Navaho" code talkers, unless we will see many more crew succumb to mind altering substances eps and Hoshi and T'pol need to chat again. I think english will be just as challenging for alien races to understand, that the crew won't need vulcan to confuse them any further. perhaps it will be a simple bridge to help bond T'Pol and Hoshi as "friends" aboard this ship.

So, I decided to challenge my preconceptions about this ep, and watch it.

It was "good", but not great.

I think I see "why" things are off... and will compensate for that in future watching... afterall. Everything can only be new "once", right. After that they should get their act together... (Archer's crew & TPTB) shouldn't they?


Porthos Burgers :eek - Ginny how could you?
Monday -- 12 Oct 2001, 17:33 GMT

and Porthos is my favorite character too.

But your right about Vulcans they were not trusted during the original series either. We even hear Scotty and almost Kirk calling Spock terrible names in "Day of the Dove". And in many TOS novels you can see that there comes a time when the Vulcans start to see Humans as contaminating there pure logic.

Actually, I think this trait makes Trip seem human and it gives him something to work on, maybe by series end he'll volunteer to be our ambassador to Vulcan.


I can just hear Ambassador Trip now...
Virginnie -- 12 Oct 2001, 17:43 GMT

..."Keep yer shirt on, T'Pau. The treaty will be here tomorrow."

And I'm not saying that Porthos isn't a doll of a doggie, Cheryl, but he's just as obvious a visual ploy as T'Pol's catsuit.

Re: "Challenge your preconceptions, or they will challenge you."
Monday -- 12 Oct 2001, 17:49 GMT

I don't think everyone is being fair to Archer, he didn't tell T'pol not to do her scans just that she should do the human thing and take a moment to admire the beauty of nature the problem is T'Pol isn't human. Also, I don't really hold his distrust of Vulcans against him in his mind they frustrated his father and prevented his father from seeing the only dream he had come true when the could have easily helped or at least not hindered him.

I don't really think Archer or Trip are bad people I like that both have flaws and their prejudices( which evolved over a life time) aren't resolved by the third episode they should keep this tension going at least a year or two.

I really like when Trip took the away teams picture Archer's first instinct was to put his arm around T'Pol but then he remembered and leaned toward her with a big grin. I hope that picture makes it to the Vulcan and Star Fleet command centers and also to the nearest Star Trek convention so I can buy it.


Re: :tv: STRANGE NEW WORLD--First Impression
MindyP51 -- 12 Oct 2001, 19:41 GMT

Didn't see the whole thing (missed just about the whole first half-hour), but here are my first thoughts...

Loved seeing the female crewman, and one with brains and a pro-active role. Thought Blalock and what's-his-name guy who plays Tripp did great acting jobs, but I was surprised and a little put off and at the same time held by how much pure bigotry Tripp was displaying...way, way, way more than Archer has ever shown (I tend to think that Archer's problem with Vulcans is more of personal resentment than of bigotry). Thought that T'Pol wanted to kill him, and that only her logic, which she was struggling to hold on to, kept her from doing so...I hope they did this intentionally and that they follow up on this "hidden" aspect of Tripp's personality...hmm, could this explain why he rides T'Pol so hard and so constantly? Much more so than Archer.

Liked seeing her use the "Spock pinch"...remember my post from last week? I think I really might be right about the Vulcan's wanting to keep certain things about themselves, i.e., their physiological abilities, to themselves...she only used the grip when he couldn't see her doing it, and what he said about "cricking his neck" when he awoke leads me to believe that humans definitely don't know about the neck grab.

Liked T'Pol and Hoshi speaking to each other in Vulcan...we have not heard or been exposed to enough of that language, not like the way we've been exposed to Klingon...wonder if we'll eventually get a Vulcan version of "Hamlet?" ;-)

Dr. Phlox is definitely growing on me...I see more of Dr. McCoy in him every fact I would postulate that he is more a cross between Bones and Neelix more than the Doctor and Neelix.

Not happy with the originality of the plot...too much borrowing (at least it seemed that way) from TOS...a cross between the "Leila" episode and that 3rd season TOS episode with the trogs and the cloud dwellers...spores, pollen, caves, nutsy behavior...for a guy who denigrates TOS, Braga sure seems to depend on it...maybe the problem is that he doesn't know the episodes of TOS, so he thinks he's being original when he's not?

Of course, there is no new plot under the sun, it's what you do bring to it in characterization and other things, so I must say that overall I do think ENTERPRISE is fairing better than the first season of TNG and even (don't hit me) VOYAGER. DS9 is just in a ST class by itself, frankly...more B5 Trek than classic Federation Trek.

More after I see the whole thing.


Re: And not just from McCoy, either.
Sherry -- 12 Oct 2001, 19:54 GMT

I liked parts of this episode, disliked others. I agree with you about Trip and T'Pol together. The show seems to be setting up a very interesting dynamic here: a different interaction for T'Pol than the one she has with the Captain.

I like Porthos--and he is cute--but you're so right that he shouldn't be allowed to wander on an alien planet. Maybe Archer and the Starfleet of this era need to rediscover a leash at the very list.

The American Kennel Club itself says "No Beagle should be allowed to roam free, as its nose will surely get it into trouble." But a carnivore and a Porthos-burger? :eek: Not that much trouble, please! However, I do wonder if we're going to see reasons why Starfleet establishes (or enforces) the rule against pets on board.

I said "or enforces" because another possible explanation just occurred to me. Maybe they do have a no-animal rule, but Archer is an exception for some reason. Then the question becomes Why they let him do this when they normally wouldn't. What is the story behind his position with Starfleet?

Re: "Challenge your preconceptions, or they will challenge you."
MindyP51 -- 12 Oct 2001, 20:07 GMT

Deb, when did they use the term "phaser?" Who used it? Hey, perhaps the trademark term is "phase pistol," but in the way "frigidaire" and "coke" became synonyms in every day use for refrigerator and soda, "phaser" became the lingua franca?

I can understand not using the transporter to beam them up...they just don't have the kinks out of it yet...what if they beamed up the crew with pieces of rock in them...or, worse yet, reverse the scenario...the crew embedded in rock?


Re: "Challenge your preconceptions, or they will challenge you."
Marie -- 12 Oct 2001, 22:10 GMT

Husband asked the same thing. They could not beam the people out from inside the cave. They could only beam the med kit a little ways into the mouth of the cave. There was a scene in which that was asked and answered, but I cannot quote it because I was too busy turning to husband and saying, "see?"

Sure hope I am right, because I refuse to take back a good "see?"........

Actually I noticed that phrase again tonight.
Jewel -- 12 Oct 2001, 22:59 GMT

I had a couple of friends around to watch "Broken Bow". General verdict was favourable: there are quibbles, but it was considered to be eminently watchable.

But I did notice while doing so that "Keep yer shirt on" seems to be the catch phrase the crew use when they're trying to parody Trip.

I certainly hope that isn't... foreshadowing. Ulp. :-(


Re: When did they use the term phaser?
Deb47 -- 13 Oct 2001, 02:33 GMT

T'Pol used it when talking to Hoshi in Vulcan.

Nice touch.


I enjoyed Strange New Worlds, yet...
david g -- 13 Oct 2001, 21:00 GMT

lke you, voyagerfan, i am really uncomfortable with what seems to happen in every ep--T'Pol gets razzed, knocked down, parodied...when this happened to Spock on TOS or Tuvok on VOY--it was just a lot better natured and more in the nature of affectionate ribbing...somehow, the whole This-Side-of-Paradise TOSey spores thing only flimsily legitimated the ongoing, well, meanness to T'Pol, whom im growing to like more all the time.

i get the point that the racial tension is part of ENT's point--but doesnt it seem really excessive, having an extra edge to it? I mean, it's not enough that Archer has all of these rages against Vulcans and TPol but Trip has to, too?

and i think both Archer and Trip (whom i like sometimes and cringe at other times) are too fratboyish for my taste. Braga seems to think--thinking of his Harry and Tom stuff--that all guys, straight guys, anyway, are fratboys.

That must be why i like Reed and Phlox so much--theyre given more or is should say less frattiness.

Anyway, like Ginny, i enjoyed the campfire scene a whole lot..actually, i enjoyed the whole first half a great was leisurely w/out being boring, and really captured the wonder of the newness of a planet and exploration.

i liked the Rock creatures and the paranoia--i always like paranoia--but somehow the Trip-racism stuff just isnt for me.

i did really like Hoshi and Tpol Vulcanning out a way out of the mess they were all in.

Id give this ep a B-.

david g

I dont find her especially attractive, Eric, actually...
david g -- 13 Oct 2001, 21:09 GMT

but i really like Cutler. Id love to see more of her. I agree with you and DAlaire about her...she was on VOY in MUSE as the girl who loved the playwright--a role Dominick Keating was sposed to get but they held fhim back for ENT.

actually im liking the song better but i like it less as it goes on--DROM does have a BAD opener--what the heck was wrong with the other one?

david g

I *knew* I recognized her from something...
Virginnie -- 13 Oct 2001, 22:15 GMT

...but I would never have remembered Muse. She had some goop on her face in that ep, didn't she? And interesting note about the fact that Dominic (a way cool name BTW) was supposed to be the playwright. I hope we get a little exposition on his background as Reed pretty soon.

You're just full of interesting trivia today, David. Who knew the doctorate would start to pay off so quickly? 8)

I still don't like the song all that well, but it doesn't make me bleed from the ears or anything. I do love the montage, though, especially that shot of Alan Shepherd grinning at the camera (at least, I think it's Alan Shepherd).

You forget, David
Joyce H -- 13 Oct 2001, 22:18 GMT

David said:

"T'Pol gets razzed, knocked down, parodied...when this happened to Spock on TOS or Tuvok on VOY--it was just a lot better natured and more in the nature of affectionate ribbing."

At the start of TOS, the crew was already well established and Spock was already known to Kirk and McCoy. Tuvok had been Janeway's best friend for decades. These people are all just getting to know one another.

But TOS certainly dealt with anti-Vulcan prejudice, and often with a real edge to it. Go back and rewatch The Galileo Seven and Balance of Terror.


I had those very eps in mind, Joyce.
david g -- 14 Oct 2001, 00:08 GMT

A good point--let me formulate a response!

david g

Precisely, Joyce.
Virginnie -- 14 Oct 2001, 00:35 GMT

When we are first introduced to the TOS crew, they've already been serving together for some time. The mutual respect and affection that usually (and I say "usually" for a reason) blunts the edge of McCoy's jabs at Spock for being Vulcan have had time to develop. And yet there are still times when some seriously disturbing prejudice against Vulcans emerges. Balance of Terror and Galileo 7 are the two most obvious ones, but someone recently reminded me that Day of the Dove also has a few incidents of anti-Vulcan sentiment.

The folks in ENT barely know each other, except for Archer and Trip. Let them stumble around for a while and work out their interpersonal relationships. I can wait.

But did everyone gang up on Spock?
david g -- 14 Oct 2001, 05:39 GMT

That's the thing ive, so far, been troubled by...hey, it's only been the premiere and two eps so this may all change, but it seems there's...a zealousness to the way in which it's just allowed to attack T'Pol.

anyway, though, i think im falling for her hard...she is becoming a great character and Blalock is doing a fine job with her.

Hmm, i also dont mean to suggest that Spock never encountered similar ire. I love The Galilieo Seven--"No, Mr Spock. I would insist on a proper burial even if you were dead." That's a great episode.

But what counterbalanced McCoy's and others' jabs was Kirk's obvious love for Spock and their friendship.

Who loves T'Pol (other than me and some of us here)?

david g

Haha, Ginny! :) And you got me to thinking of HIGH ANXIETY
david g -- 14 Oct 2001, 05:42 GMT

See that one, the Mel Brooks parody of Hitchcock films?

The evil Harvey Korman and Cloris Leachman make Dick Van Patton bleed from the ears after listening to interminable radio music.

david g

Hells bells, David, we hardly know T'Pol yet. 8)
Ginny -- 14 Oct 2001, 06:18 GMT

Give the crew a little time to get to know and understand T'Pol, too.

I, personally, think she's developing into a pretty good character, and she's improving as a Vulcan. What I like best is her interaction with Trip. They are, hands down, my favorites. So you can imagine how pleased I am with the lion's share of screen time that they appear to be getting.

Everyone concerned has an extra hundred years to mellow out
Jules -- 14 Oct 2001, 11:04 GMT

But I invited a couple of friends over on Friday to watch the premiere. Both of them have watched all four previous series, and one of them writes freelance articles on the minutiae of Trek lore as his second job, so they're both pretty well versed in the history of the series. And on the whole, we all felt that the whole dynamic of the Vulcan nannying instinct versus the humans' impulsive rush to be out there doing things was one of the elements that gave the series something new to work with and build upon, without contradicting existing canon. Because that element was there in TOS.

My own feeling is that the learning process has to apply to both sides. The Vulcans have to realise that they can't hold the humans back as much as they'd like, and the humans have to realise that in some cases there's a very good reason why they do need the Vulcans around to help them learn at their own pace. And I'm sure the Prime Directive will get cooked up somewhere along the line.

In the meantime... Archer and T'Pol have already shown that both races can start to shift their positions towards each other and begin to compromise. Which is why I actually see Trip's attitude towards Vulcans as being more important than Archer's, because it's more indicative of the general human prejudice. Archer's resentment is personal, because it ties in to his father's feelings of frustration, and has deep seated roots. Trip piggy-backs off that a little, because he's Archer's friend, but I think with him it's more about a mistrust of a people who have been visiting Earth for a hundred years but still keep themselves firmly to themselves, hiding away in their enclaves. Because Trip seems to be a friendly, gregarious type, and obviously doesn't understand why the Vulcans would act that way... unless it was because they felt too good for the race they're helping. He probably sees it as the Vulcans being aloof; T'Pol undoubtedly views their enclave on Earth as being a means of going home at the end of the day to some sanity and somewhere where she can relax and not have to worry about cultural differences.

In the case of both Archer and Trip, and indeed much of the rest of the crew, the thing that will gradually change their prejudices against Vulcans as a race is learning to know one Vulcan as an individual first. It'll take time. Possibly seven years. But isn't taking those first steps out into the unknown and learning to play nicely with the aliens part of what this show is about? Having a couple of those aliens on board the ship allows them to do it in microcosm as well.

And there is a difference between her position and Spock's. Spock was a Starfleet officer, an act which showed that he wanted to be there, and that he specifically wanted to be on a human ship. T'Pol isn't Starfleet, which makes her an outsider, and the circumstances that she came aboard Enterprise under introduced her as chaperone - if not spy - and therefore implied Vulcan superiority yet again. Despite the fact that Archer ultimately invited her to stay, it will take time and better acquaintance for her to feel like an ordinary member of the crew.

And for the record, yes, I like her so far.


Hey, I know we just got started here
david g -- 14 Oct 2001, 13:52 GMT

And I as Ive said, Ive been enjoying the show...but im still a little anxious about what Ive seen of the gendered dynamics of the show...we'll see what happens.

Hey, i wanted to mention, I really liked the relaxed quality of the episode...I thought Archer's relaxation was forced, but, o well...I liked the first scene with Cutler and Novacovich (sounds like one of the names on X Files) just informally eating and talking, and i did love the way everyone gazed in awe at the Earthlike planet. Sometimes I wish VOY had stopped to smell the alien roses more often.

and i loved the campfire was great. Though how do I feel 'bout Travis? the guys such a blank.

LOVE Phlox. he seemed generally pained about Novoc's near death...thought it was interesting that Archer refused to comfort him though seemed to consider doing so.

i have to say, im loving TPol...I think she is Braga at his best, or has the potential to be...actually, in this episode, she seemed more herself and less SeevnofNineish.

david g

And now for a differing viewpoint.
Nina -- 14 Oct 2001, 14:04 GMT

If I as a division director in a government agency made constant, public jabs at a subordinate based on the person's race (substitute species here) or other inborn characteristic, and allowed the person's co-workers to do the same, I'd be in big trouble. And I'd deserve it, too.

That is the flavor that Archer's "conversations" with T'Pol are starting to have for me. If that makes me "too PC for words," then so be it. It's my honest reaction, and I don't like finding it in my Star Trek unless the villians are doing it.

Deal with the hostility that's developed between Humans and Vulcans, over that 100-year nanny/child relationship? Sure. Have the heroes of the show faced with overcoming their prejudices? Good idea. But there's got to be a better way to write those scenes than reducing the maturity level of the captain to junior high school.

Which would have made the whole "spores make humans crazy" storyline work better for me, now that I think about it, if all the feelings they'd been dutifully reigning in came bursting out as their inhibitions fell. Then those scenes WOULD have told us things we didn't know already, or would have confirmed what we'd only suspected; and how much more interesting the whole episode would have been!

So, david g, while I respect the other viewpoints you're hearing - I can't share them.

As always, YMMV. :-) Nina's Sunday morning rant is now over.

And that's the whole point, Nina--they are racists.
Virginnie -- 14 Oct 2001, 17:37 GMT

And impulsive and naive and careless and stupid and stubborn. No one is saying that the ENT crew *ought* to be like that--they just are. That's the choice TPTB have made in creating the characters. And no one is saying that they are being fair or kind to T'Pol, either--they obviously aren't, although she appears to be able to give as good as she gets. Eventually, though, as this group of individual humans gets to know that particular Vulcan, some of that prejudice should evaporate, to be replaced by understanding and mutual respect. At least, that's the way I hope it will go, and that appears to be the point of the denouement in SNW, where Trip talks about challenging one's preconceptions.

Now, what's going to be done about their impulsivenes, stupidity and stubbornness, I don't know. Probably a couple of crewmen are going to have to die first to teach them a rather harsh lesson. Although Trip is probably going to learn the "Unexpected" risks of being impulsive and careless a little sooner than the others. ;-)

I understood that in the first place.
Nina -- 14 Oct 2001, 17:53 GMT

I merely said I find it offensive, and would have made a different choice.

Oh, okay. I find it lazy writing, myself.
Virginnie -- 14 Oct 2001, 18:33 GMT

Obvious racism eventually gets it can see the storylines coming a mile away. Of course, TOS was a little heavy-handed, at times, and TNG practically beat its audience over the head with the sermon notes. Still, this may turn out to be a more timely subject than TPTB could ever have imagined, considering the national situation.

A late arrival to this STRANGE NEW WORLD
Jason -- 14 Oct 2001, 19:07 GMT

STRANGE NEW WORLD was, in many ways, the least of the episodes to come from the new series so far, but it was also one of the most enjoyable, amply showing the charms the lie beneath the premise of ENTERPRISE.

STRANGE was just a sci-fi crisis episode-- not necesarily deep, but not devoid of ideas. As usual for a Strong/Sussman script, there were a lot of interesting ideas but not exactly in focus. (I liked Trip's paranoia of the dead crew being found by a Vulcan crew... an interesting insecurity).

Still, it was a very enjoyable hour where it seemed like the initial acquaintances made in the previous two episodes with the crew of the Enterprise seemed like they could become full blown friendships.

LIKES: Connor Trinneer was much improved, not that he was ever bad before. He seems to be fitting into Trip's skin better-- and the accent is seeming less forced, at least to me.

I liked the initial scenes of exploration. Archer seemed more acceptable to me, and the inclusion of he dog really seemed to harken back to the fun of exploring the American frontier.

Great to see a nice location used.

Speaking of the dog, the Portos cam was a great shot by the director!

The camp fire scene was nice, it was appropriate at this time, since, not knowing the characters, you can feel like you're sitting at that fire with them, getting to know them through their storytelling. Again, another nice allusion to the frontier exploration of the past. That said, Mayweather was not exactly the best storyteller.

Ensign Elizabeth Cutler. What more needs to be said? I was impressed with Kellie Waymire when she was in Voyager's MUSE. I'm thrilled she's back, hopefully in a recurring capacity. She's very cute, a very good actress, and her character was damn cool.

In short, this episode didn't have a lot behind it, but it did seem to make ENTERPRISE a cool place to be.


Jason, darlink! You're just fashionably late.
Virginnie -- 14 Oct 2001, 19:23 GMT

You wrote: STRANGE was just a sci-fi crisis episode-- not necesarily deep, but not devoid of ideas. As usual for a Strong/Sussman script, there were a lot of interesting ideas but not exactly in focus. (I liked Trip's paranoia of the dead crew being found by a Vulcan crew... an interesting insecurity).

Remind me. What else have Strong and Sussman written?

An excellent point about Trip's paranioa. I hadn't really thought of the significance of that idea. I did get the feeling for the first time in this ep that part of Trip's problem is that, deep down, he's just a little afraid of Vulcans, and, therefore, is a little afraid of T'Pol. That would certainly go a long way towards explaining the depth of the hostility that he directed toward her while delusional.

About the accent--it sounded better, because it wasn't there half the time. Connor really ought to scale it back a little and not try so hard. Plus, it's my understanding that Trip's supposed to be from South FL, and that accent he's doing doesn't sound much like a South FL accent to me.

Re: Jason, darlink! You're just fashionably late.
Jason -- 14 Oct 2001, 19:37 GMT

The Sussman/Strong were regular VOY writers in the last season, taking care of BODY AND SOUL (wasted potential IMO), PROPHECY (interesting ideas about religion and B'Elanna's faith but not fully fleshed out, I thought), AUTHOR, AUTHOR (no serious complaints here) and RENAISSANCE MAN (an exciting episode again with some interesting ideas about the Janeway/Doctor relationship relegated to virtual window dressing)... as far as I recall.

Most of those episodes I think had a certain amount of spunk, but weren't fully developed ideas IMO, and even SNW seemed to have its hands in a lot of cookie jars. Still, the cookies in those jars were all tasty even if they were more or less just bites.

Anyway, just to log a reservation about Trip, my only complaint about Tucker this week was that I would have serious second thoughts about going on prolonged away team missions with him based on his trigger happiness in the caves... even that behaviour *was* induced by hallucinations.


Well, all the promotional mats go out of their way to say...
Virginnie -- 14 Oct 2001, 20:02 GMT

... that Trip is really naive and inexperienced. It's hard to wrap my head around that concept, because he is a man in his early 30's, and I initially made the mistake of thinking that he's a relative contemporary of Archer's, when, in fact, he's 10-15 years Archer's junior.

So here's the situation--he's doped up and trapped on a planet during a fierce storm with a woman of whom he's a little scared and a lot distrustful, and he's practically *alone* with her (and her suspected allies), because the woman ensign and Travis go down for the count pretty quickly. Plus, he clearly idolizes Archer, so he feels like he needs to react with Archer's confidence and aggressiveness (and incredible lack of judgment, I might add--and Archer's usually not breathing in hallucinogenic spores) to protect Enterprise. Like almost all the men (except maybe Picard) and one particular woman :-) in ST, he therefore goes for a gun, and suddenly you have a John Woo stand-off.

So maybe he shouldn't be leading any away missions for a while, but I think he could use the experience to get past some of his understandably rookie mistakes.

The best part of this whole ep, except for the tent scene, though, is the part where Archer actually acts like a captain with good sense and uses his superior understanding of Trip (as a person who trusts Archer with his life) to talk him into putting down his phase pistol.

Jason -- 14 Oct 2001, 20:20 GMT

Luckily, Trip *isn't* the first officer (and good thing lest he fall into the Riker trap if he were) and any time he and T'Pol get some action (interpret that how you will) the results have been interesting so far. You're right-- I'm sure he'll grow, not that he's been a liability so far, but that whacked out behaviour in the caves would probably make a lot of people understandably nervous.

Still, I definitely can't object to the drama that this situation produced. Having the two main characters spend most of the hour at the barrel's end of each other's guns made for some very good tension throughout the show.

I wonder if someone can clear up a question I had about the spores. Phlox lamented that he thought he didn't get to Novakovich in time... but the Away Team got the treatment much later. Or was there soemthing about being away from the spores that caused the onset of the near fatal condition?

Speaking of that, I thought Billingsley's scene was very well played if not made moot by Novakovich's off-screen sudden recovery.


Alas, poor Ethan, I knew him we--oh, wait. He's getting better!
Virginnie -- 14 Oct 2001, 20:46 GMT

I think the reason that Ethan deteriorated so rapidly was that (a) he was picking flowers and smelling them early on, and (b) he ran out of the limited protection of the cave into the storm where all the pollen was being stirred up. So his condition was much worse to start off with, than those crewmembers who stayed in the cave.

The Phlox scene after Ethan takes a turn for the worse was excellent.

Um... yes, they did
Joyce H -- 14 Oct 2001, 21:37 GMT

In Balance of Terror, EVERYONE was suspicious of Spock - yes, even Kirk. I thought that little maneuver where they were talking about the sitch in the briefing room, and Kirk slid a heavy book over to Spock and Spock placed his hand on it, while seriously DATED, was pretty damn significant. He wasn't going to take his First Officer's word for something unless he swore to it?!

The Galileo Seven was Spock versus the entire landing party, due entirely to prejudice against Vulcans.

For first season at least, when the chips were down, Spock had to keep 'proving' himself to the rest of the crew, something that the other characters didn't have to do.

Well, in the pilot...
Jules -- 14 Oct 2001, 22:04 GMT

(which I continue to refer to, because it's still the only episode I've seen - darn that postal service!)

...Trip says that he's only ever been to one planet before. Contrast that to Travis's handful of them, which have taken him pretty much his entire life to achieve, and it would seem that nobody's really been anywhere very much at this point in time, because until Enterprise launched it was just too slow. In order to have any significant experience of other planets, your career would be halfway over before you managed to put them on your CV and get a job because of that knowledge.

So, Trip's inexperienced as a spaceman, and it shows... but there probably aren't too many other people around who could claim to have more experience than him either. So my bet is that he was actually recruited to the ship for his experience as an engineer, which with a prototype ship that's still on its shakedown cruise would be just as important a priority. (Although one might ask why he's going down to the planets at all, rather than just fine-tuning his engines. :rolleyes: Not that I'm complaining, you understand.)

One thing's for certain. He certainly wasn't brought on board for his piloting skills. ;-)


Personally I'd rather Trip "keep his shirt OFF!' nim
Janey -- 15 Oct 2001, 06:19 GMT

Ok, so is it Neck Pinch... Or Nerve Pinch? :)
david g -- 15 Oct 2001, 14:45 GMT

Im so...confused!

ive always said Neck Pinch, as in, "I just love that Vulcan Neck Pinch."

but lotsa Nebbies are saying Nerve Pinch, which is creepier and probably more accurate but...not what ive always said!

david g

Star Trek Encyclopedia has it as "Vulcan Nerve Pinch". (NIM)
Jules -- 15 Oct 2001, 20:48 GMT

Nothing really new to say except that I really liked it overall. (nim)
Mindy -- 15 Oct 2001, 21:47 GMT

What if T'Pol was a guy....
Voyager Fan -- 16 Oct 2001, 05:14 GMT

Would I feel like T'Pol was as ganged up on if she was a guy instead of a woman?? I guess it would depend on the way the vulcan responded.

I haven't seen many of the original series episodes. But I would think, as David noted, that if a friendship was already established between McCoy, Kirk, and Spock, that anti-vulcan outbursts would be less troubling and resonate differently than they do with T'Pol and Trip, who have no such underlying friendship.

Well I hope that T'Pol delivers some verbal zingers in the next episode and thus defends herself against the frat boys, or that they cease and desist their verbal abuse.