The Coffee Nebula Board is for the discussion of Star Trek: Voyager and other sci-fi/cult shows. This is its Archive of episode discussions, top ten lists, fan fiction, and other miscellaneous musings.



:agree: ENTERPRISE: "Oasis"
Eric -- 4 Apr 2002, 00:51 EST

I LOVED this episode. Maybe it's becuase i had Bossy watching this episode beside me but both of us LOVED it!

SPOILERS who look suspiciously like Jennifer Lien!











Ok, very similar to DS9's shadowplay but this one was different in certain ways. Oasis was played for creep factor, bigtime.

I had no problems with the Holograms holding weapons like a few of the fans on Slipstream since Holodoc (Trip : Sum kind'a Holographic Doctor! ) held a very real medical scanner and datapads.

I also loved opening up the escape pod and the darkened corridors.

Jealous T'Pol was interesting, i'm not sure she is Vulcan but i really DO like T'Pol now. She may not be the type of Vulcan we are used to BUT she works on Enterprise.

Liane was so close to Kes and she even borrows from Kes's wardrobe. I loved her.

Rene did a great job as the father and that last scene with Archer was very nicely done.

And this week Archer gets his butt kicked by a hologram! Ok, i like the guy but can we have a week were Archer DOESN'T get his butt kicked?? Please? Maybe...maybe he even kicks a little butt HIMSELF?

So yeah, they lose a point for the typical Holo-epiosde but then again they did it well. They lose another for minimal Hoshi! And they lose another for no Temporal War. : 7/10.


:agree: No big surprises, but
Mindy -- 4 Apr 2002, 09:41 EST

...once again, it worked in the solidfying of the characters and their interactions with each other--even Travis got some air time tonight!!! (Although where was Hoshi? Don't remember seeing her. Is Linda Parks already busy doing a movie??)

It was extremely derivative of other ST's, especially VOYAGER--anybody else notice the little "reference" to the Doctor when Archer said something about a hologram physician? (Or was that Tripp? can't remember right now, it's early in the morning.) Come to think of it, there was also a TNG that was basically the very same story! Eew, that's not so good, is it?

All the actors were strong, and kudos to Renee Auberjunois (spelling?)for his role--it was nice to see him again in the ST universe, and his familiarity with it really made his acting very easy and enjoyable to watch, imho.

The pixie (Eric, you loved her, right? Reminded you of Kes, didn't she?) and her attraction to Tripp could be seen coming a mile away, but it worked because Connor played it so nicely--what I wold like to see is a follow-up, in light of the "see ya around" epilogue (shades of THE VOYAGE HOME--again, derivative!)

I also liked the way Bakula got Archer this week--he seems to be starting to tone it down, bringing some of the nuances of Sam Beckett into the role, which is what has been lacking (I am a Bakula fan, and I have been missing that aspect of his acting skills with his take on Archer, btw.)

A quiet episode, better than last week's--I'll give it a "B," if only for the tone of the whole episode. (I'm being kind--being so derivative, it really deserves a "C+")


I keep on saying...
D'Alaire -- 4 Apr 2002, 11:13 EST

...I'm waiting to be pleasantly surprised by an ep, and in a few places, this one did. --Or at least it inspired me enough to comment, which, considering my history sofar with ENT, is an accomplishment.

Or maybe it's because I have relatively little to do today. ;)

I think you (Mindy) got many of the things I was thinking about. Trip was charming this week--though among the other things you noted, I could see his passionate "What about her?" demand coming when she gave him the squash dinner. But he did bear the "awwww" moment at the end, so I give him points for sweetness.

The first thing I thought about when Liana came in was, "Oh my God, Eric's in love." ;) But she was the right person for the role of innocent woman-child, I will say that. I really would have liked to see her speak up for herself a little more at the end.

Archer...Eh. All I know is that he didn't annoy me as much as usual. I wouldn't have called him all that helpful, though, particularly when he was getting his and Travis' hineys shots at (again). Sorry, but the YAPF (yet another phaser fight [that didn't have to be in order to further the plot]) was just another shoot-em-up way of getting the holograms turned off. :rolleyes: I would have much rather seen Liana pull them of her own volition, not because the holograms were going honcho and Trip's friends were going to get hurt.

The plot was rather predictable, and --so true-- familiar to so many Trek eps, especially DS9's Shadowplay, that I was getting confused about exactly which ep was being knocked off at which point. ;) Though really, what bothered me the most was the hologram thingy and references. Gads, please, Braga, don't go there. Please don't go there. Gag.

I didn't like the fact that Hoshi was left out this week. Come to think of it, she'd have been a great character to play out much the same plot Trip had. I think it could have been a little more remarkable coming from her.

Also...Well, I guess they downloaded the linguistic database this week, or the aliens' tech was better than they suspected. ;)

Mayweather...That poor guy is such a thowaway character, even when they use him. Paper thin, I'm sorry to say.

I didn't think much about T'Pol's little snit, even if it was serving the dual purpose of exposing Trip's heart and reminding us--duh--that the crew had seen holographic tech before. For T'Pol (who I have warmed to a little), it wasn't necessary. She's gettin' a little 'tude lately.

Ah well. It was nothing new, nothing to think much about, and somewhat 'duh' at times. But I'll give it points for Trip's moments, nice casting for Liana, good Rene Auberjonois (liked his last scene), good shots of the ship, and for Trip's comments about ice cream, marshmallows and Cajun food. ;)

I thought it derivative of "The Cage"
Terry -- 4 Apr 2002, 11:36 EST

(aka TOS's "The Menagerie") among others. I saw the holostuff coming and saw Liana as Vina. Little girl raised by a bunch of adults after being being (almost) the only survivor in a ship wreck. Raised by reproductions of those dead adults, that it.

I can't say I liked this show. Not only was it unoriginal but also predictable as a result. I saw the Vina/Liana thing almost immediately. And Liana was such a Kes-type character that I was struck by the gall of Berman and Braga, seeing as they were the ones who dumped and then ruined the original Kes.

If they were going to copy a TOS-child-alone story, they should have used CHARLIE X. Then Kes, I mean Liana, could have used her psychic powers to terrify the crew. :-)

It didn't help that Archer and crew kept losing fights. Shoot their guns, you idiots! And next time, bring more men when you come back.

And like way too many ENTERPRISE episodes based on Berman/Braga stories, this show was boooring. Rick and Brannon don't have the imagination to come up with 26 good story ideas a season. (Or even one so far, IMO.) Use someone else's story idea for a change.

I wonder whether Berman/Braga had to come up with a season's worth of stories...
Jules -- 4 Apr 2002, 12:02 EST accompany their pitch of the new series to the Paramount and UPN suits? And whether, because they've got them to hand, they're now just writing them up into fully fledged scripts? We've had so many stories by them that have then had teleplays done by the writing staff that it's got to at least be a possibility.

Hopefully next season will see a clean slate and a whole fresh batch of scripts.

Of course, there are only so many script ideas under the sun, and there are about 600 other Trek episodes out there. It's pretty difficult not to echo any of them in a new offering. But if you can't do anything else, you should at least try to put a fresh twist on an old standby.

"Acquisition" arrived today. Thanks, Terry! I guess I shall be braving the Ferengi this evening. :eek:

Not sure what to think about this one.
D -- 4 Apr 2002, 14:49 EST

With all the references to ghosts and the dark corridors I'd expected the crew of the crashed ship to prove to be enemies, particularly with Auberjonois as a guest star, since he's been playing mostly bad guys lately. Instead what we got was a father feeling guilty for the loss of the rest of the crew and his daughter's loneliness. I agree its was not exactly original. I can't place "Shadowplay" but I thought of, on TNG, the episode with Riker & the boy who projected an entire life for Riker & Data's "mother"; and on Voyager, Doc's holo-family & Seven's crew interaction scenarios.

Looks like they're setting Trip up to become the holographic expert. I liked his crack about a holographic doctor.

I'm still having trouble figuring out how they decide who joins away teams. Why wasn't Read part of the first one? Seems they'd want the security guy on an exploration of a mysterious crashed ship. Any of them could have flown the pod and there was no other reason for Travis to be part of the team. I can see why they didn't bring Hoshi, since all their scans showed the ship was deserted. But they were lucky the Universal Translator worked right away.

The flashlights have got to go! I assume the TOS crew used hand held flashlights (I don't remember) and that's why the Enterprise crew do, but its one of those areas where continuity should be ignored. Firefighters, rescue workers, miners, military and anyone else who needs to have both hands free use clip on lights now, why wouldn't Starfleet 150 years from now? Leave the hand held lights for when power goes down on the ship.

Once again different races foods and spices may not be appreciated but coffee and ice cream are.

;-) And to think you complained about the ONE time...
Deb47 -- 4 Apr 2002, 20:30 EST

Janeway was clocked by Maj Cullah at the end of season 2!



Wow, Terry, I forgot to mention "The Cage" in my reivew!
Mindy -- 4 Apr 2002, 21:14 EST

Thanks for bringing it up. I thought of Vina, too, when I first saw Liana. In fact, I think I would have liked it better if they had copied "The Cage" rather than seeing the hologram thingy again.

"Charlie X!" Now THAT would have been a good episode to rip off, if you have to rip off something. That particular show is one of my favorite TOS episodes!


That little eerie Cage gnome-lady just passed away, according to ST:TM. NIM
david g -- 5 Apr 2002, 15:55 EST

Watching "Acquisition" and "Oasis" back to back
Lauren -- 7 Apr 2002, 01:23 EST

I actually enjoyed "Oasis" quite a bit, but partly because, due to some sort of early senility setting in, I had forgotten how to set my VCR properly the previous week, thereby taping one hour of the TV Guide Channel instead of "Acquisition." So I had to tape it over the weekend, and then didn't get to watch it until this past Tueday, so I watched the two most recent Enterprise episodes on subsequent nights.

At least "Oasis" was better than the hour-long tape of the TV Guide Channel.

If I ignore continuity and timeline issues (with all of Trip's exposure to holotechnology, I would expect Earth to have holodecks like those of TNG within a few years, not a few centuries) the use of holograms was not a rehash of the recurring VOY question re: the sentience, rights, etc. of holograms. Rather, the holographic people were not so important as their reason for being in the first place: to keep Liana--and her father--from being alone.

And, although I normally am all for continuity within a series, I kind of wish that Trip *didn't* mention that the technology he was working on was similar to what was on the alien ship where he got pregnant. This made me basically figure out the entire rest of the episode.


-Rene Auberjenous (SP??). Among the stars of all of the star trek shows, he is easily one of my favorite actors. His acting is very clean and understated, and he can do a lot with a little (I really loved him in that DS9 episode where there was a baby changling and he had these really nice moments basically acting with a glob of goo.)

-the actress who played Lianna. She was sweet and likeable and believable--although my patience was strained a bit by my husband's constantly remarking "She's really cute!" two or three times during each of her scenes!

-T'Pol and Trip. Ever since "Broken Bow's" much commented upon (again, especially by my husband!)decontamination scene, I wondered whether either character had come away from that experience with any kind of, well, feelings for the other. In "Oasis," did T'Pol come across as a jealous woman or what? I mean, she was downright petty! Back in "Unexpected," her comments to Trip re: not being able to control himself for three days could have been just her disdain for what she perceived to be general human lack of self-control. But, her comments here, and bringing up that earlier incident, were much more personal. If the 22nd century Vulcans are not as developed as later Vulcans, I like seeing non-fatal flaws such as petty jealousy in T'Pol.

-I was afraid that at the end, the father would have done something like let his daughter leave but stay behind in his "Oasis" with his holograms, perhaps adding one of Lianna. I'm pleased that, although he didn't want to leave, he did. I like that he saw the need to be forward thinking and face new obstacles, however reluctantly. That seems to be the overall theme of ENT, new explorations, new adventures, the unknown. Seeing an AOTW embrace this idea is nice.

-1/2 of the regulars did NOT spend the entire episode asleep with no lines.


-The predictability.

-I'm not sure if I agree that Archer--and the Enterprise crew--had the right, or even the need, to find out the survivors' secrets. If Enterprise was in no danger, and had offered their help freely, they should have probably not delved into matters that did not concern them.

Next week: a repeat already. When will there be another new episode?

IMHO Lauren

ENT has made me more sympathetic to VOY-haters
david g -- 7 Apr 2002, 11:46 EST

I could never understand people saying VOY was boring, disappointing, stupid, etc, since i was generally riveted (esp up to the beginning of S7) every episode.

but finding myself so intensely bored by ENT--in a way i wasnt even w/early DS9--i can understand how it's possible to dislike even a Trek. i fastfwded through Acquisition and even that bored me. even Trip in underoos bored me this ep. sigh.

i think this show has also made me more aware of the essentially limited cynical view of the killer Bs, esp Braga. i think Braga's darkness worked well for VOY given its premise, but ENT suffers as a result from the fact that Braga has no faith in anything and writes men as if they were uniformly buffoonish.

My thoughts exactly, davidg
Roxanne -- 8 Apr 2002, 10:06 EST

Boring, predictable, another T'Pol and Tripp episode. When are they going to feature some of the other characters besides the Captain and those two.

I didn't hate it, just was whelmed.


Re: ENT has made me more sympathetic to VOY-haters
maggie the cat -- 8 Apr 2002, 12:02 EST

That's true for me as well. In fact, it seems to me that Ent has simply carried on what many Voy fans also criticized about Voyager.

Interesting point about writing the males as buffoons. I've disliked Archer since BB, but in some eps he comes off as more of a buffoon than others. My intense dislike for Archer, in contrast to my affection for the four *real* captains, also makes me more sympathetic to those who bashed Janeway (and Seven).

As for the others, Mayweather is simply a phantom. Ever since Reed's "stinky" wetdream, I've found him repulsive. I have enjoyed the androgynous Trip but it does too frequently result in buffoonery (is that a word :-) ). Phlox, the most interesting of the males, is rarely seen. I find it ironic that I, connoisseur (sp?) of jailbait, find Phlox the sexiest man on Ent. :-D

And imho the Voyager men were at their best before Braga took over. But unlike you, IIRC, I never thought Braga was particularly good at writing women either. Other than T'Pol, there are no interesting women on Ent. Hoshi needs better scripts and Cutler, who had potential, is off to greener TV pastures.

Frankly, I don't think there's any good excuse for Ent's first season to be as bad as TNG's. The early episodes other than BB suggested potential but Dear Dr was the closest Ent has come to good Trekking. Perhaps the new X-files writer will inject some needed life next season into the rehash.

More than anything, though, I think I miss the online discussions that DS9 and Voy generated. Few Ent episodes have provoked my desire to post, or even lurk sometimes. But I am also rapidly coming to the point where the enjoyable aspects of Ent (first season anyway) are not even worth 45 minutes of downtime on the weekend.

I hate to keep mauling the same person over and over again...
david g -- 8 Apr 2002, 12:41 EST

but i sincerely believe Archer is my main problem w/ENT--even the softer kinder gentler Archer we've been getting. he just reminds me of the titualr character in The Stepfather--ya never when when he's gonna blow.

the more i think about Shuttlepod One, the more it strikes me as an ep that made Reed as insensitive, jingoistic, and misogynistic as Trip and Archer. Trip has been depicted as far too idolatrously like Archer for me to find his character distinct or interesting.

and, w/Reed no longer endearingly "different," there's TPol, Hoshi and Phlox--much as i like them, none are compelling eough to have me tuning in week after week, and im never confident the treatment of TPol wont enrage me.

i think Braga responded to the intense drama of Janeway and Seven's relationship, which addicted me, and to the Doc's nonhumanness and those issues. also, i think he revved up Neelix and Kim, too soft to begin w/. luckily other writers cared enough about Torres to keep her, while underused, interesting. Just about ALL Torres eps are great in all seasons ( i know it's heresy but i can never work up much enthusiasm for MUSE, though it's a perfectly good, Trekkian episode).

i actually think the rougher, cruder version of both Trek and masculinity that is ENT COULD have worked with a tough more believeable edgier actor in the role. now that theyve tried to tone down Archer, tailoring him to Bakula's comic talent, he comes across as a softball coach-suburban dad--not in any way appropriate to Trek captains or a Trek show.

im stille eager to hear what those of my friends here who like Archer think of him. i dont like him but that doesnt mean im not interested in why you do.

Don't Reed so much into it! :rolleyes:
Tim Holden -- 8 Apr 2002, 12:59 EST

David G wrote:-

"Reed as insensitive, jingoistic, and misogynistic"

Nah, he's just English! :) Love us or loathe us.


So save it for special occasions then, david ;-)
Jules -- 8 Apr 2002, 15:32 EST

I think we probably all know how you feel about Archer by now. No need to keep repeating it unless there's something new to say. As for that... I'm sure there'll be another episode along in a week or two (looks like a "Dear Doctor" rerun this week though).

It's a tricky issue though, because there is something a little not-quite-right about the character. Since Janeway was the first captain since Kirk that was strongly a favourite of mine amongst the cast I don't consider the captain to be the make or break factor for the entire show... but he could definitely be better. As I type this I'm half watching "Shadows of P'Jem" and I think that the uneasiness I have with Bakula's portrayal of the part is that he's... well, rather overmannered in his gestures and speech. It's very stagey, rather than television acting, to my way of thinking. If he underplayed the part, and didn't try so very hard to make Archer larger than life, I think it'd be a lot more effective.

(Actually, as he has a little tete a tete in the shuttlepod with T'Pol it's suddenly hit me... he's doing. that. Kirk. thing. where. you. pause between. words. to. give them. greater. effect. :eek: Smack! Stop it!)

But I don't think I actually dislike him. I'm a great fence sitter and rarely get that black and white. I just have his report card marked down as "Could do better".

As for "Shuttlepod One"... nah. It made Malcolm look a bit of an idiot, it certainly kicked him off his "I'm the cool one in a crisis" perfection pedestal, and I squirmed once or twice on his behalf, but I don't hate him for it. It just made him bumblingly human like the rest of us. :-P

I generally love you guys, Tim
david g -- 8 Apr 2002, 16:13 EST

Being an Anglophile and all, I was esp pleased at first with Reed--but then they went and "explained" him completely, as a misogynistic pig, sorry to be so blunt, and i lost interest.

a shame cuz i really liked him.

Re: I generally love you guys, Tim
malcom -- 8 Apr 2002, 16:36 EST

David, I have reacted to Reed's character the same way. It's almost as if they had to really underline that he was straight, kind of like they did Niles on "Fraiser." It was too much, and it ruined much of my like for his character. In the meantime, I also react as you do to Bakula, but I'm going to try to give him more time as I'm told he's a good actor. Perhaps, but it's not a good character.

I think voodoo dolls just get better with torture.
Ronit -- 8 Apr 2002, 17:05 EST

Ohh, wait... you're not talking about Braga. Sorry 'bout that.

*sighs, puts away doll & whale harpoon*


A good story badly told
Jason -- 8 Apr 2002, 21:55 EST

OASIS had some good ideas-- yes, derivative ones, all-- but the problem was that the story was paced in such a plodding manner.

This is the second time ENTERPRISE has tried to do a "ghost story", after TERRA NOVA, and despite their apparent fascination, they can't get the mood right. OASIS wasn't spooky at all, even though it tried to be. The only mildly eerie scene was when T'Pol was confronted by the colonists, and frankly that was only because the reality of the contrast between her and them was that she was much creepier, and if you ran into her in a darkened corridor, she'd come off as being quite spooky.

This was an episode VOYAGER might have tried and pulled off much better-- it had a certain thematic awareness of its stories, so it might have been more focused on getting the job done. ENTERPRISE's style, so far, is a straight-ahead matter of fact attacking of the plot. If you're going to do a ghost story, that doesn't work! The whole episode's success was contingent on achieving that feeling that something wasn't right about these people, but that was never achieved. The lame TNG jumpers they had to wear didn't help.

I liked the shades of FORBIDDEN PLANET (yes, I know that even FP was a derivation) with Auberjonois protecting his daughter, but Auberjonois was wasted and the hype I heard about the main girl being reminiscent of Kes was over-stated! :|

In all, the only scene I liked was the one where T'Pol got confronted, and only because of Jolene Blalock's own eeriness that she brings to the character.


Jason, why do you think...
david g -- 9 Apr 2002, 00:26 EST

VOY's style of storytelling is superior?

obviously, i completely agree, but what do you thinK?

Perhaps id better not talk about ENT anymore
david g -- 9 Apr 2002, 13:50 EST

I seem to burst into apoplectic antiArcher rage whenever i talk about ENT, and i can imagine that's gonna get old.


:agree: I agree about Reed
Lauren -- 10 Apr 2002, 00:09 EST

Jules, when you said:

"As for "Shuttlepod One"... nah. It made Malcolm look a bit of an idiot, it certainly kicked him off his "I'm the cool one in a crisis" perfection pedestal, and I squirmed once or twice on his behalf, but I don't hate him for it. It just made him bumblingly human like the rest of us."

I actually liked Malcolm better because of that episode. He was a little pathetic, but a character who is that immature emotionally and socially but obviously bright, clever, and inventive has a lot of potential for growth. If Enterprise is going to be around for seven years like the other Treks, I don't won't perfect characters at the start...where is there to go?

In fact, the Enterprise characters all have interesting imperfections that should make them fun to watch.

What annoys me about Enterprise at times is not anything particularly wrong, just the lack of a "wow" factor. Few of the episodes really stand out in my mind.

Still, when the premise of Enterprise was unveiled, my attitude was "They've got to be kidding!" I expected total dreck. So, when I am at the least amused by much of what I see, then I'm happy.

Still, I'd like episodes that do something with Mayweather and Archer. I know that there can be interesting characters buried somewhere there; these two--the green ensign and the larger-than-life captain--are the two biggest stereotypes and TPTB seem to be unwilling to bring any more depth to them as individuals.

IMHO, Lauren

A little goes a long way with Trip
Sherry -- 11 Apr 2002, 19:07 EST

Introducing him as an admiring imitator of Archer was fine. But one is quite enough, thank you! We need to see him developing as a different character--not necessarily putting either of them in the wrong, but remembering that he's a unique individual.

A friend of mine characterized Braga's mentality for male characters this way, Sherry
david g -- 12 Apr 2002, 16:27 EST

Braga writes male characters as if they were not Trek but Star Wars (Ep IV) men...and it's hard not to agree w/that...

in fact, since ive always argued positively for Braga making the vOY women mythic, larger than life heroes, you might say Braga, emulating Lucas, added Joseph Campbell to his mythic VOY women (including The Voth and Borg Queens)...

but, also emulating Lucas, he made the men simplistic--naive Luke (Harry) and swaggering Han (Paris)...with Neelix as Yoda and the Doc as C3P0.

gosh, it's making a terrible kinda sense...! to my mind, anyway.

Nina -- 12 Apr 2002, 17:02 EST

That does make a terrible kind of sense..."Doc as C3PO" has me cracking up!

Alarming, isnt it? ! :)
david g -- 12 Apr 2002, 18:56 EST

hi Nina...! hope allz well.

Re: A friend of mine characterized Braga's mentality for male characters this way, Sherry
Sherry -- 13 Apr 2002, 10:49 EST

You know, that does make some sense. As cautious as I am to praise Brandon Braga, he did an impressive job with the women. (One might even say more so than Lucas) But I do see the men becoming two-dimensional. And the Doc as C3PO makes me grin, like Nina. I can definitely see that one!

Re: A friend of mine characterized Braga's mentality for male characters this way, Sherry
Malcom -- 13 Apr 2002, 18:20 EST

David, I'm going to have to disagree with you somewhat here. And, again, I'm going to borrow some of Ronit's ideas. I don't think Braga did all that well by the women on some counts. They all - Janeway/Torres/7o9 - all seemed to be dogged by anger, bitterness or guilt. Even 7o9 got her turn at guilt.

And we never saw female friendship. [I think this is one of the many reasons c/7 was so bad - we never saw 7o9 in a friendship with anyone other than Naomi]I don't ever remember seeing Torres in Janeway's quarters, for example. And in the later years, episodes focusing on Torres seemed to focus on her anger at her Klingon heritage or her unhappiness in her relationship with Paris. I've discussed my problems with the way Janeway was depicted in other posts, so I won't go there.

But I will agree with you that Braga seemed more interested in the women than the men. By far. Or perhaps it was the actors themselves. All three women were really terrific actors - and reactors to others' lines. I'd love writing for them too.

As Ive said, the guilt stuff works for me cuz...
david g -- 14 Apr 2002, 02:07 EST

it fits into VOY's whole and to my mind wonderfully affecting theme of redemption. Perhaps my Catholic upbringing--im not being facetious--has something to do with it.

i hear what youre saying, though, Tracey--i have often bemoaned the lack of J-T friendship.

A rant free response.
Ronit -- 15 Apr 2002, 15:02 EST

Disclaimer: when supervised by Jeri Taylor, Braga wrote some great Janeway eps.

Let me put it this way. Under his regime the women of Voyager were about as realistic emotionally as Seven was physically.


:agree: :agree: I couldn't have said it better! nim
maggie the cat -- 15 Apr 2002, 19:41 EST