The Coffee Nebula Board is for the discussion of Star Trek: Voyager and other sci-fi/cult shows. This is its Archive of episode discussions, top ten lists, fan fiction, and other miscellaneous musings.
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"Who would have thought that this eclectic group of voyagers could actually become a family. Starfleet, Maquis, Klingon, Talaxian, hologram, Borg... even Mr Paris." |
Workforce: 1WORKFORCE Par One is Dazzling! Gorgeous production dsign, perhaps VOY's most stylish ever, gives this ep instant appeal...but that's just the beginning! Because the best vOY eps are usually ensemble pieces, WORKFORCE's employment of the whole cast gives it a wonderful immediacy from the start... There's a wonderful quality here of the cast realizing it has a fresh script to work with and rising to the occasion... You can see the palpable joy on Mulgrew's face as she gets to play a new version of Janeway--she's still recognizably Janeway but she's softer, more vulnerable, more delicate...this is some of Mulgrew's best work ever. I have also really enjoyed seeing the somewhat messy "new" crew of ECH Doc, Neelix, Harry, and Chak try to come together as a crew... interestingly, Janeway's new love is physicaly much like her first on the series, Earthbound Mark...there's something vaguely creepy about this guy, but he's somehow more her type than Michael or Henry Janeway. I wish that Tom and B'Ellana had had a chance to play off other people, though Tom has a nice scene with the catlike, sexy proprietess of the bar... Tuvok is also in good form here; Tim Russ is just so good at doing wracked-Vulcan. This ep is simply lovely so far. Can't wait for Part Two! What a treat Part One was. david g WORKFORCE All set up and no pay-off, so far... ...but so far, so good. WorkForce, Part I does a good of setting up the plot (as is the case with all Trek two-parters). The crew gets kidnapped and brainwashed by hostile aliens interested in a little slave labor--although I'm curious as to if the green inoculums, which is supposedly use to treat radiation, keeps the crew brainwashed? Hence Tuvok's apprehention to the daily check up. Nice to see that PTB FINALLY chose to activate (no pun intended) the ECH (one of Doc's fantasies in "Tinker..."). Although, I really didn't see an opportunity in any prior episode where the ECH would be necessary. Oh, but Spare me the Janeway/Lustful Friendly Alien romance sub-plot, which serves as only filler to me--so far. It's not that they do it, but *how* they do it, that interests me. That's always been the case, actually. But this week, I really wish they'd had both hours on. I know they'll be fine in the end, but I really want to see how, and really hope that splitting it up like they have won't deflate what they'd been working on in Part I. As usual, I don't want to give too big a review of it until I've seen the whole thing, though I will say that the setup was very good--excellent, really. Yes, I read the script that surfaced on the 'net, and it was quite dead-on, so there weren't any surprises for me. The performances and sets brought it all out--and very nicely. I was not surprised. I loved it. Janeway was just as KM spoiled her to be: Happy, outgoing, willing to love and be loved. She practically purred and pranced throughout the episode. I liked TPTB's choice in boyfriend much better than FH's Michael. This one fit, reminded me more of a young...11:59's [Henry Janeway? I suddenly forgot his first name]. He fit--and if they're going have Janeway go the mile, it's might as well be done right. Poor, surgically altered Chakotay! (grin) Part II should be good for that. Interesting that they had Tom uninterested in any careers--or maybe if they'd allowed him even near his specialty, he'd be long gone. I love how they had him beeline towards B'Elanna--and persist as stubbornly but friendily as he had in S3. Love it--of course. His "You said romance was out of the question. How about a friend?" melted my heart upon hearing it. Perfect Tom in his best light. B'Elanna--all over again I feel for her. I wonder if she thought her pregnancy was an immaculate conception or what, though if she's alone and has learned to be defensive...sigh. Maybe we'll get a tidbit of what they had her believing in part II (even if RD's directing that part--yea!). On a brighter note, I love how she was reading when Tom approached her. LOL! TPTB did include a lot of interesting details of the crew in their brainwashed lives. And I adore that smile she turned back at Tom before she left the bar. Lovely--and dead-on for her character and her history with him. Seven--efficiency manager? Aggggghhh! Tom had good taste to get canned. I'd have lasted about a minute. Tuvok outlining the joke--BWAHAHAAAAA!!! Stupid! Stupid! --But a good kind. Too bad he couldn't get enough of his wits about him before he flipped out, though he did get to Seven. Suffice to say (and since it's late) I like how TPTB did what they did to the crew--kept them much like themselves, but totally different, too. It really worked for all the characters. I really am not getting into the "command ego" thing on Voyager, though. It's five too many times for the Doc and doesn't suit Harry. I hope they drop it. So, again, I definitely enjoyed the setup for part two. I still think that not making it into a one-might special was a mistake. Then again, everyone who knows me knows I hate 1.unfinished stories; 2.cliffhangers of any kind. (smirk) All I hope is that RD's complaints were dead on and she did have to do a couple scenes for Part II (going through make-up and directing, too, is not too easy, I understand)--aside from the late scene some spoilers have revealed. Despite the trouble, I'd like to see her "other life" resolved somehow, at least a little. We shall soon see...next week. Waaah! BTW, did everyone else see UPN's typically tasteless "Human Error" blurb? How many gagged or grimaced to see it? I have to admit it: I laughed. :roll eyes: Why? Maybe I missed it, but why wasn't C and N, brainwashed when they entered the "Workforce?" What script?? Where, Where??? (NIM) Simple... I believe the crew was brainwashed by some kind of mind probe while being treated for radiation. On the other hand, Chak and Neelix were willing, job-hunting workfore participants, so there was no need to order a brainwash for C&N. A very quiet two parter.... I don;t want to get to involved till we see part two but so far so good. It's just....a little two quiet. The highlight of this one is the FX work, damn Foundation Imaging is good, i would put their CG city up against anything we saw in PM, and they did it on a TV budget! Well done! Paramount sign these guys up for Series V right NOW. And the scale when Voyager flew buy the satalites and the station was amazing. I think we sometimes forget that while Voyager is a small ship for the Federation, she is still frelling HUGE. For the workforce : Tom and Seven were best. Tuvok is getting way to good at the "Sweat'en and Shake'en" bit. If he isn't careful his action figure will do it soon. NEW TUVOK WITH SWEAT'EN AND SHAKE'EN ACTION!!!! B'ellana was low key but good. They even tried to do the single mother thing. Janeway was....dull. I didn't buy it. It just didn't work for me. The Rescuers : Chak almost made an emotion! I swear! I think he may be alive! HoloDoc was good as always. Neelix was good this time! And he remembered his ship! Wow!! We will see how well this ties up next week. So far so good...just...quiet... Eric Watching this episode, I felt like huge chunks were lifted directly from "Beneath the Surface," a Stargate SG-1 episode that aired last fall. So many basic premises were the same -- brainwashed workers, learning new skills, meeting up with folks one has known before. The scene where Tuvok became ill and shouted about not belonging and needing to remember was practically line-for-line what Teal'c said. *sigh* Nothing new under the sun, I guess. Still, it seemed a bit obviously plagaristic. Nonetheless, there were some interesting bits. Janeway was just luminous -- open, friendly, above all HAPPY. That's nice to see. Tuvok's joke scene was also enjoyable, even if his jokes themselves fell flat. I do like seeing him break out of the Vulcan mode on occasion. It may be a bit predictable, him being the one to remember, but I'm sure Tim Russ will pull it off with his usual skill. The "shortage of laborers" bit was interesting, especially when Neelix revealed that he'd gotten job offers just talking to captains of other ships. Chakotay and Neelix make an interesting team, I like seeing them work together. And the Doc just needs to be smacked, already. Does he think that when the crew is short-handed, that Janeway doesn't work just as hard as everyone else? Yes, he did an admirable job keeping the ship safe when he was the only one aboard. But once Chakotay, et al were back on board, he should have gone right back to being just Doc, helping out but certainly not having command. I was on the phone for the last bit, so I'll have to watch that on tape later, but overall I enjoyed it. At the same time, I kept thinking that Stargate SG-1 did it a lot better. AC WORKFORCE (Spoilers) Hey all, been awhile since I stopped in. But I thought that Workforce was pretty good. The FX shots were really good, which you would expect w/ Foundation Imaging being apart of the production. Some of the sets were kind of lame though. The blue flashing strobe lights reminded me of the green lights over the Borg Drones regeneration chambers, which they probably are. I will agree w/ what most people have said about the ECH, that Picardo is doing a great job w/ it. I liked the part where he is trying to argue w/ Chuckles about being on the bridge, not off fixing something and when him and Harry are arguing over who should be in charge. I didn't like how Kathy became the little tramp in her dating w/ the guy from work. I thought that was a little fast. But maybe that is just me. Of course I read the whole synopsis a couple of days ago on Trekweb, so watching it was almost anti-climatic. I did like how Tom and Be'llana (sp) started to get together in a way. Of course 7 doing what she does best, efficency. They can't write Tuvok to save thier lives, which is rather frustrating. Chuckles is getting air time, so hopefully he will stop complaining. Enough ranting, I will give it a A-, and I can't wait to see the conclusion. Hopefully, they can do part too as well as part one, because unlike the past 2-parters where they pretty much set up the end. I have no idea what they are going to do to get the whole crew back. They can't do like they did to Be'llana to the whole crew, that is way to many people. I will be interesting. MCCSaxman The thoughts posted above are not sanctioned by NASA, Paramount & Viacom, CNN, Dell Computer, Microsoft, GE, Ford, Goldman Sachs, The Wall Street Journal, Alan Greenspan, G.W. Bush, Al Capone or Slick Willy. The thoughts posted above are the express opinion of MCCSaxman and MCCSaxman, Inc. Copyright 2001 MCCSaxman, Inc. Re: What script?? Where, Where??? (NIM) Trekweb.com had a complete synopsis for the episode a couple of days ago. I am not sure if it is still on the main page or not. I am sure they still have it, unless Paramount had them take it down. MCCSaxman Sorr, but that really bothers me How can you call Janeway a TRAMP just because she's had sexual relations w/someone? Not to jump on you, sorry if I am, MCC, but that thinking just really bothers me. david g Re: WORKFORCE Discussion Area (Spoilers) NIM Firt things first. The only way I want to see Seven is with her on a pike and only very briefly. Why is it that Seven gets a hot scene where P/T only get sophmoric kissing scenes? With respect to the episode, it was okay. Mulgrew looked good in the episode for the most part. She seemed to really enjoy the role. Her off duty sack dress has got to go though. The episode was nicely ensemble; however, I didn't like that we never got to see B'Elanna do any work. As Chief Engineer you would think she would be in high demand. I also don't like that she only really gets to interact with Paris -- a continuation of the isolation trend. However, Part II might make up for things, she is now the ranking officer on VOY and therefore the acting Captain. Sorry Harry, not sorry Doc. I thought the Doc's behavior was a bit much. I liked Tuvok, the bar tender, Paris (he had a good role and was a good guy), the FX. So it was pretty good. On a PIKE? even for you, pixie, that's extreme!!! dg That should be her head on a pike. Yes it's gory, but I am so tired of Seven, and I hate that they're wasting two episodes on developing Seven and Chakotay's relationship. I think that Chakotay has been underutilized and if they wanted to do an episode with any other character and Chakotay I would be fine with it. "...how Kathy became the little tramp" - hello? What year is this? Why is an adult woman who falls in love & lust with a guy a "tramp" because she doesn't wait out some arbitrary time frame? Maybe they should've spent more time in the malt shop, listening to hep Perry Como albums or even getting pinned, but I'm sure the guy bought her a wrist corsage and still respected her in the morning. They're available through... ...the same person who did the Shattered [IIRC] and Lineage scripts. She's posted at the RD Board, and at the PTC. --And they're not synopses. They're the real deal...a draft back from the final, I'd say. Frankly, I adore them all. For this spoiler happy fan, they make the eps all the better. Agreed David! I sure hope Pixie gets well soon! I think she is feverish and hallucinating. Surely it is obvious that Seven of Nine is the most misunderstood and underused character on Voyager!! You can NEVER have enough episodes where nanoprobes save the day. Timmy Evil! OK, Maybe it was Maybe tramp was a little strong. I like Captain Kate, she is one of the best things about the Show. I think that the way things moved w/ her and the other guy just seemed to fast. Of course as I reflect back now to Caretaker, that is how she talked to Mark. So maybe I was jumping the gun a little bit. Sorry, if I offended you. MCCSaxman I just wish she'd get a guy her own age. (NIM) Well, I certainly wouldn't call Kathryn a tramp... ...but actually I did think that moving so quickly into an intimate relationship with her co-worker was out of character for our Captain. I would have expected a bit more caution from her. OTOH, no doubt she did have a lot of pent up sexual energy just waiting to be released. Vickie Trek doing what Trek does best. Commenting on a social or political or economic issue, taking it so far that the viewer can see its - er - warts more clearly. In this case, capitalism! (Haven't read other comments yet, BTW.) I do love to watch KM laugh. Wow, she's gorgeous when she does that! Poor Harry. The idea of that "nectar" turned my stomach right along with his. Tom and B'Elanna - sweet. Really. Pleasant surprise. Is there a law that says Janeway's men have to have gray hair? Not that mine's not silver nowadays, and not that I didn't much prefer salt-and-pepper Chakotay...but WHY? Mark, Henry, now this guy. Kashyk's the only one who didn't...I was going to say, "Look like her father." But that's not quite what I mean...oh, well. Anyway! The Doctor "done good," as my Gram would say. But I still wanted to swat him a few times, and Chakotay deserves a tolerance award for putting up with him. They remembered that Chak's a vegetarian! Which still doesn't explain the chicken paprikash and salami sandwiches, unless the replicated meat doesn't count. Any vegetarians care to comment on that? Since I certainly can't? I liked it. I want to see Part 2. All for now! Workforce. Yeah, whatever. Sadly, my reaction to Workforce really brings home just how deep my disaffection with Voyager has gone. As a detached observer, I noticed and could acknowledge the strengths of Workforce, but I just couldn't work up any emotion or enthusiasm for the episode. My primary thought was that I enjoyed Beneath the Surface more. BtS is the Stargate SG-1 episode that AC mentioned in her post: the one with the plot that is so similar to Workforce. Sigh. And I used to love Voyager. I am, OTOH, kind of looking forward to the Seven/Chakotay episode coming up. Why? Well, as those of you who have see Kiss Me a Killer know, if Beltran can do nothing else, he absolutely nails hot sex, and I'm curious to see how that plays out. Vickie Ummm, Nina, are you sure you mean capitalism? Nina wrote: Commenting on a social or political or economic issue, taking it so far that the viewer can see its - er - warts more clearly. In this case, capitalism! Admitedly it's been a while since I studied government, but I don't remember hijacking, brainwashing and conscripted labor as fundamental tenents of capitalism. Vickie This is the best work Tim's done on the series. Tuvoc on ludes is --wow! Do you agree? NIM Yes, that's what I mean. I thought about it before I chose the word, and to me (YMMV) what the episode is doing so far is taking the basic (and in my opinion, good) idea of "businesses must compete for workers" and taking it to a ridiculous, dangerous extreme. SIGH. I would love to see "Kiss Me a Killer." It's available for around $90 plus shipping...maybe sometime I'll run into it at a more sensible price. Ya, but can PTB write a script where out-of-character Tuvok doesn't go whacko? I enjoyed the bar scene where Tuvok engaged in humorous(!) social(!!) activities; but then PTB had to fall back on the old out-of-character Tuvok Routine (They did the same thing in Meld and Repression. Riddles wasn't much better). And I've loved James Read since he played Murphy on the first season of "Remington Steele" lo, those many years ago. Not to mention when he was George Hazard (or "Garge" as his wife called him) on "North and South" I think they made him up to look older though, last night, and I'm not sure why. I just checked and he's only 47. I was flipping channels last night (I did tape this one, and I'm actually interested this time in sitting down and watching the tape), and I was surprised when I saw him. Ah, "North and South" -- when we get together in May remind me to do my Dramatic Interpretation of the scene where Orry, played with vitality by Patrick Swayze, comes home to find his mother dying. Sniff. It even brings a tear to *my* eyes.
WORKFORCE First Impressions In other words, before I read other people's remarks. I found a lot to like about this episode! Likes: The use of the regular characters--they all appear, get time, and play an interesting variety of parts. When I first read the listing of this episode, I expected them to be put into a line where everybody pretty much acted alike. But instead they're handled as individuals. Everybody got time, both on the planet and in the away mission returning to help them out. The "transformations" reflected the natures of the characters, instead of ignoring their personalities. I especially liked Tom and B'Elanna making friends--their relationship still positive even in a non-romantic setting. Seven as an inspector is perfect; even with her memory wiped, the precision that's so typical of her comes out. Chakotay in disguise looks good; I like the makeup in general. Featuring all the characters this way is probably one reason this episode became a two-parter. If it were a single hour, a lot of that would have had to go. Dislike (or at least question): The "transformation" of Doc into a command hologram. All of a sudden we're shown that this was apparently a standard? What's the point? He didn't seem to change nature or lose his medical knowledge, just to put on a different color. A doctor could already be in the command line, as Beverly Crusher showed on TNG. Including the "glimpse" of Seven's romantic experiment in the scenes of next week. Come on--featuring the future scenes from that showing. Now I can read the other, probably more coherent, comments! Sherry About the veggie thing I think you're right about the replicated meat not counting. He probably doesn't eat meat because he's against killing animals (or something like that) so when he eats replicated stuff the animals don't die and it's fine with him. There are also people who don't eat meat because they don't like the taste of it, but I don't think he's one of them bcause that still leaves the salami/chicken thing unexplained. Bsides, considering C's strong moral principles your explanation seems more logical (yeah, let's ask Tuvok...). Maybe they still have quorn chicken in the 24th century.... I agree, but... ...I also think it's just due to Vulcan nature; they are either contained and logical, or uncontrolled and completely illogical. There's no inbetween, they can't be "a little bit contained". But from what I've heard (I havent seen the ep yet, gotta wait another year or two... I'd reckon WorkForce to "socialism" What we have here in WF is a government run bureacracy where workers are brainwashed with propaganda that everything that is being done is done in their best interest--which includes making all personal choices for them. Workers aren't free to choose their own employment; instead, they are assigned positions based on their aptitudes. Im turning into a finger-waving judge, but Pixie, there's just NO need, in a culture prone to such violence, particularly misogynistic violence, to use such imagery. Sorry, but that's how i feel...i wouldnt even say something like that about EZRI DAX! david g LOL, Nina! Why cant they give her a Michael Nouri or a Chris Noth type? Not that this guy was bad for Janeway, he was appealingly bearlike, but still! david g Vickie, Im surprised you didnt like this one more It seemed to reflect a genuine affection for the entire cast... Darn that Braga for turning you off VOY. david g Thanks for responding so sensitively, MCC. NIM Well, we're looking at it from different angles... I didn't see the government "assigning" everybody; I saw the various employers competing (example - Tom getting terminated and having to scrounge for a job; Chakotay and Neelix being able to apply freely for work wherever they wished). The government played its role by hijacking passing space travelers, and then by allowing their continued brainwashing. Laboring WORKFORCE was a pretty good, if somewhat scattered episode. As the latest part of a lineage of Voyager two-parters, it seemed to lack the focus of the Braga and Menosky two-parters. It was everywhere at once. I know that was in some ways intended, but the result was an episode where individual scenes were interesting but somewhat lacking in a terms of a central drama. I actually kind of miss those Braga/Menosky "villains" and their big speeches. There was nothing extremely memorable in WORKFORCE but the scenes were all generally good nonetheless. In the absence of any intriguing external characters the nice thing about WORKFORCE is that it reminded me of how cool some of Voyager's characters can be. Chakotay-- it's been a long time since I harbored an interest in this character. IMO he was not completely true to form (side-stepping the role of conciliator between Kim and the Doctor, for instance), but he seemed energized and it's amazing to see what this character is like when he's actually put to use. Tuvok! I thought he was the coolest part of the episode. Tim Russ did a great job and I really liked his own bizarre efforts to convince his crewmates that they aren't what they think they are. It was interesting to see the Doctor actually assume command, but he's a whiner. Way back in TINKER TENOR DOCTOR SPY I thought that an argument that Janeway should have made was that if she did give him the ability to take command, what would be the point for crewmembers like Ensign Kim to try to work for these higher positions themselves? I'm glad that was addressed, although the Doctor hasn't seemed to learn anything. He's still insensitive to the rest of the crew when it conflicts with his own ambitions. That's a character consistency, I suppose, but it's a shame that he hasn't outgrown that negative trait yet. I thought WORKFORCE was generally good and in some ways made for an interesting hour, but the problem is that I can only talk about it in general. It all seemed to blur together. Nothing was very wrong, but nothing jumped out, either. And IMO that Jaffen guy wouldn't stand a chance in a fight between either Mike and I for Janeway. Jason Humph you BETTER not David! If you say somethig like that about my Spotted Pixie i will SMITE you into next week buddy! Eric Eric, eric, eric wouldnt say that which you know so well!!! hey, how couldja find Janeway boring here? she's light and relaxed, all that you SAY you want her to be...come on, eric, give a gal a break! dg Agree, david g! (nim) GRRR to Trekweb "Janeway has to choose between an adult relationship and her martyr complex." Of course she should choose "love" over duty and responsibility...and of course she's already better off and happier now that she's no longer (inappropriately) trying to command a starship. In a pig's eye, as Bones would say so aptly! Re: They're available through... Uh.. what's the RD board, where is it? Can you please give me the address of that site!!!! Are the full scripts there? Thanx Okay, a little more extrapolation I loved the acting from everybody! I loved the sets! (Anybody else think of FORBIDDEN PLANET and BLADE RUNNER?) I loved the script! I loved that a great story idea/synopsis actually translated to something wonderful! I loved the direction! I loved the cinematography! Okay. Enough extrapolation. Mindy Okay, one little more extrapolation I loved that we not only saw Neelix's ship again, but that the guys USED it!!!! Finally!!!!! And in a way that made so much sense!!!!! Mindy Janeway a tramp? Excuse me??? Umm, what show were you watching, MCCSaxman?? Grow up, will ya? Mindy I guess I don't know the definition of "tramp" considering that for seven years her love life has consisted of one kiss with an alien she didn't trust and an affair with a hologram, I would hesitate to use the word "tramp". Every single other character in the show, with the possible exception of the very married Tuvok, has seen more romance--even Harry. Actually, this week's romance is probably the most adult relationship Janeway has seen. As to things moving fast--well if you take away most of the worker's memories, there isn't a whole lot of time required for them to get to know each other. IMHO Lauren PTB could still tone it down The writers never abused Spock in this way. Why can't see Tuvok explore humanities' wide variety of emotions other than dispair, aixiety and fear? Why not give him more love interest (Chak, for all his woodenness, has seen more action than Tuvok), yes I know he has a wife back home, but with such eps as "Alter Ego" and "Gravity" I've always felt it was a mistake on the producers part to tie Tuvok down with the ball and chain. "Liking this one" Or enjoying an episode on its stand alone merits david g wrote in questioning why Vickie didn't rate this episode more highly: "It seemed to reflect a genuine affection for the entire cast... Darn that Braga for turning you off VOY." I'm not the person to whom you addressed this question, david, but you have hit on a problem I've had with this season. I know Vickie used to say that she tended to try and enjoy each episode as a stand alone moment in time, rather than as part of a series where she'd enjoy every plot twist and turn (correct me if I'm mischaracterizing you, Vickie). I've done that in the past. But I've found I haven't been able to do that this season. One reason I haven't posted much this year is that I really do hate to be negative about a show that has brought me both friendship (on this board) and moments of happiness over the years. but I've noticed that when something happens this year that I like, I tend to immediately question the motives of TPTB or to think "too little, too late." Maybe it is the fact that is season 7, and I know it is the last. I wonder if I'd have been as happy to see Admiral Paris this year as I was last, if Pathfinder was a season 7 show. I don't know. Ensemble shows used to *thrill* me -- and I liked last night's show more than others I've seen recently, but I also get irritated b/c we haven't seen more of them. Tom and B'Elanna's story this year has had the same effect on me. I can't remember the name of the episode where they were in the void recently ("The Void?"), and I didn't watch the whole thing, and do you know the reason I didn't is really kind of intellectually stupid given that I read good things about it, but it reflects my feelings about the show this season: I was irritated b/c Voyager has been drifting around in a "void" known as the DQ for seven fricking years and apart the fact that they occasionally have to eat Leola Root stew and drink Neelix's even-better-than-coffee substitute (in season one only), you'd think there was a Kroger's right around the corner. Why strand them in an isolated area of space in "Caretaker" and then have them suffer little more than the occasional bout of homesickness? Mini-rant over, and let me say that mini-rant aside, I really liked what I saw of "Workforce" last night. I'm glad. I really want to embrace the show for the last few episodes, and I hope that I'm getting over whatever block I've had this year. Ruth P.S. Thanks to Jules and the "food fixations" list. I couldn't remember what Neelix called his coffee substitute. Sort of, but... I'm sure Tom would've gotten an assignment had his job hunting not turn up anything. And Chak and Neelix were never abducted/brainwashed, so I figure there wasn't a need for the gov to assign them anything since they were applying at their own free-will. Sherry, I think your comments were quite coherent and I basically agree with them. I enjoyed WF a lot and am looking forward to pt 2. I do have a few questions, though, that I doubt will be addressed: 1. The workers all know their names, and have retained all of their (employable) skills. They each know their race and planet of origin, but that seems to be all...how do they account for their presence on this world? Their memories of their homeworlds have apparently been tainted to keep them happy in their new lives, but, if asked how they got where they were, how would they answer? 2. If Janeway's lover (forgot his name already--getting older is a bitch!)comes from a race that doesn't have fathers, it seems to imply that men are not needed for procreation. If that is the case, why do they have men? and, what exactly is the nature of Janeway's relationship? But I did enjoy this episode. I liked the ensemble acting which we don't get to see enough. I liked most of the guest aliens, particularly Janeway's beau and Tom's boss. I liked the Neelix/Chakotay team (not one I remember seeing before)and the way that Tom and B'Ellana seemed to connect as strangers. I also liked Janeway's infamous cooking abilities still going strong ("it's only burnt on the outside")and the FX. I just hope that pt 2 isn't a letdown. IMHO Lauren Re: Janeway a tramp? Excuse me??? Up above below somebody, I don't remember who it was, I said that maybe a tramp was a little harsh. I just didn't think that it really fit the character of Janeway, but than I though about it and that was pretty close to how she was acting in "Caretaker" when she was talking to Mark. I just thought that the whole relationship seemed to move really fast. Granted it was only a one hour show spanning about 3-4 days. I am sorry if I offended you, anybody that remembers me and my posts, (when I would post,) knows that I am not one to write purposely write something controversioul (sp). I like Voyager, I like Captain Kate, and most of the crew. I thought ditching Kes for 7 of 9, I still do. I am way tired of the whole 7 of 9 thing, way over used. Now I am ranting. Just IMHO. MCCSaxman Sheesh. Sorry if I'm coming off as rather abrupt & sarcastic, but if Pixie thinks that a fictional character is in need of a severe maiming or whatever, who the heck cares? There's a diff between her saying that and actually going out and *doing* something like that, and I hope we all *know* that there's a difference. If she were doing that to people in reality, yes, I'd be worried. But she's not, so why is the finger-waving necessary? AC, getting flashbacks to the flame war over Seven getting the smackdown in Tsunkatse. Re: I just wish she'd get a guy her own age. (NIM) Why? Mindy Re: GRRR to Trekweb Sigh. Yes. Well. As much as I (usually) enjoy Odie's reviews, he's always had a thing about Janeway - like he hates the character plus the acting talents of Ms. Mulgrew. What can you do about such an infidel? The J Team has tried round-the-clock invocations to The Red Shouldered One, slipping prayer requests under our Plastic Incarnations, and even speaking in tongues but Odie remains stubbornly heathen and ungallant. Re: I just wish she'd get a guy her own age. (NIM) Why? And just how old is that, anyway? Mindy That's interesting, Quince. I'm not a regular at Trekweb; I just happened by there looking for spoilers. As a person not especially familiar with "Odie" (the O Deus who pops up here and there in other places, perhaps?), what I believed I was hearing was the voice of a classic "what all women REALLY want is the right man!" sexist speaking. I'm not sure whether I'd be relieved, or merely puzzled, to hear that he just hates Janeway and doesn't really hold that view of women in captaincy (and other jobs where personal life takes a back seat). Ooh, another NORTH AND SOUTH fan!!! Cool! (nim) I think it's more than 3-4 days, Saxman. It was two weeks... ...between the time Chakotay, Kim & Neelix left the ship and returned to find it almost a ghost ship. Plus the time it took for them to find the "workforce" planet, plus the time it took for them to get there (3 days, said Kim), and add a couple of days for the surgery and Neelix to get them situated with work on the planet... You're looking at a minimum of a month, probably more like two, two-and-a-half. Certainly enough time for a relationship to get going, especially when you work in the same place and live in the same building. Mindy You'll still sick, Pixie? Oh, man! Anyway, for just about the first time... ...I agree with you about B'lanna. I kept wondering, too, just what the hell is B'lanna job?Did she even HAVE a job? Or was she on some kind of maternity disability leave? But considering that it was planned that she would be directing the second part, perhaps they deliberately downplayed her screentime? Don't agree with you about Janeway's off-duty clothes, though. I loved it...thought it very sophisticated & reminded me of C.P. Shades or Donna Karan... And you can't complain about Seven this week, can you? Mindy I think I had some of Harry's nectar myself, Nina. Ever since after dinner last night (which I ate while watching VOYAGER), I have had a queasy stomach and a headache, and generally just feel like sh#t. Isn't there a mild flu or a real bad cold going around? Pixie's sick, and a few people around my office are feeling the same way I am. But unlike Harry, I would have tried that Leola Root tea. Has to be better than Pepto-Bismol or Maalox! Mindy A very nice lady who posts at the... ...Roxann Dawson board and the P/T Collective board, transcribes and then offers them out. No, the full scripts are not there, but they are emailed by request. The PTFC Board can be found through PTC Archive. Just follow the link to the board at the side. yea, but Spock was a half-breed.... NIM Sorry, AC, we have to disagree (as usual) I have been hearing Trekkers say things about people they hate for a long time now, Braga and Seven of Nine getting the worst of it. You can hate anyone, in really florid terms... but Im frankly disturbed by what I see as a tendency for people to discuss their cultural opponents in terms of violence, cruelty, gory death, et al... on other chatrooms, ive heard people say and describe all sorts of manners in which Berman and Braga should be murdered...i just think it's too extreme to attack people in THIS manner. i enjoy talking to pixie (hi pixie!) so i felt i could tell her how i feel. in addition, i am NOT a terribly PC person, and in fact generally hate PCishness, but im nevertheless turned off by rhetoric of this kind... im happy to debate this point further, or to not. david g "Odie" is even more biased than Michelle Erica Green...DO not enjoy his reviews! NIM I am calling to order an executive council of the J/C society... First and foremost... May I remind everyone of our Organization's Motto. "Delusions are us!" Second... Anyone else notice how Janeway's hand caressed/lingered over her lover's left forehead? Almost as is she was searching for something that wasn't there?
Hey... as for the "trollop" firestorm that poor MCC ignited (The last time I came to the "written" defense of a fictional character's morals was 1988...) I think everyone should also recall that the passage of time on the planet was a little more than we might realize. Sure, that means they got together after 1 week and not one night, but every little bit helps. Also, I suspect that Vickie is on the "right" track with respect to "pent up" energy. These aliens seem to be "smart" in leaving parts of the character's personality intact, and allowing that part to "wed" themselves even more firmly into their new society. Janeway's desire to "not be boss" and to be allowed to live out all aspects of her life and not just the "command" ones would help her to bond to this new life. Seven's desire for perfection/efficiency. (Could this be "Fanderal's" long lost daughter? Yep, finished "White Dragon" this week. Tom's desire "not" for a job without rules", but for a "purpose" in life. Janeway and B'Elanna gave him that on Voyager... looks like B'Elanna is about to do the same for him on Quarren. Sigh. Do I really have to wait for ANOTHER week to see the conclusion???????
D47 You know... I'm not saying much... got home quite late and watched it at 2 am... but Lord Almighty what a FANTASTIC episode! When the Teaser pulls me into the thing so much that I can't wait to see the rest... I know I'm in for a treat. Thank-you PTB... Thank-you PTB... And when the end makes me salivate for another hour... and praise "them" for not trying to shoehorn this one into "1" episode... Ahhhhh We are not worthy... we are not... well, gosh darn it we ARE worthy and THANK-YOU for seeing that! That's it for now... got to cook, got to rewatch it before I can say something that's half way intelligible.
D47 Re: "Odie" is even more biased than Michelle Erica Green...DO not enjoy his reviews! NIM Yeah, it's like he tries to find the bad stuff in every ep and then point it out over and over again.. I stopped reading his reviews some time ago, they only annoyed me. If he's 47 he's not too old; he and Mulgrew are about the same age. Have they ever appeared together before? They've both done so many TV movies, mini-series and guest shots and have been working about the same amount of time. Re:the definition of "tramp" = Female. Lets be frank... Kirk had sex with anything that moved, and was/is the darling of startrek Fandom. Picard had a few flings, including a soulmatch with another man's bride, and fraternized with his Chief medical officer... and he's the "Father figure" of modern trek. Sisko lost his beloved wife, became enamored of a few women, had sex with the A/U version of his best friend, married a Maquis, and still "became" a Bajoran God/Prophet. Janeway tries to vent her frustrations with the 24th century version of... "mastering her domain"... and while BRAINWASHED has sex with a charming alien who's asked her to "move in" (no one night stand for hime!)... AND SHE'S a TRAMP! Any wonder why Mulgrew has so "zealously" guarded the path to Janeway's bed on Voyager? Pitied when she "doesn't"... d@mned when she does. Reminds me of that last letter I wrote, defending "Murphy Brown. 13 years later... and nothing's changed. D47 Or younger! Re:Why cant they give her a Michael Nouri or a Chris Noth type? That makes Chakotay look even MORE Gorgeous. Hmmm stay on Quorn and be a troglodyte with this gray man as a companion... Or... Go away with this gorgeous hunk of man, Captain a Starship and fight injustice... Hmmm. D47 VOYAGER does BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI Everybody walking around so happy and content at their, what are in fact, drone jobs (and no, this has nothing to do with Seven)... "Be happy in your work." Colonel Saito to the British P.O.W.'s upon their arrival at the camp. Mindy Actually TPB have ben consistant with Tuvok when it comes to mind control Here, in Represssion and UZII the brainwashing/ drugs just don't last. Of course in UZII that turned into a disadvantage. Killing Game used an implant that linked them into the holodeck so its not really the same situation. Veggie burgers? Veggie salami? Tofu "meat loaf?" Yeah, that's it, david g...SEX AND THE VOYAGER!!!! That's what I want to see! I hope I like Part 2 as much as Part 1. Since I'm somewhat late joining the discussion (got stuck attending a meeting out of the office today) and I've already responded to a couple of posts I'll just add a few comments. Glad they chose to use the ECH in a situation where a hologram makes sense - crew has to abandon ship due to environmental contamination & he's the only one who can function in the conditions. But Chakotay should have revoked the authorization once he was back. Hope Torres does pull rank (though I expect to mostly hear her over the com from wherever she's making repairs once they deprogram her). Continuity: Torres sitting alone reading and drinking coffee. Janeway's inability to cook & love of coffee (I assume what she and B'Elanna were drinking was that world's equivalent). Neelix - ship, past as trader, ambassador functions. References to "lower decks" crew (Celes, Ayala, et al). Trekweb's Review I can't believe that I am actually going to defend O. Deus, but here goes. Yes most of the time his reviews are pretty negative towards Voyager. But if you read his review from either last week or the week before he actually praised Voyager for once. Which was really, really odd. O. Deus is not as good of a review as Berserker was, plus he was a Voyager fan and would defend it almost all the time. But alas, no one has seen him, or heard from him in ages. Too bad to. O. Deus is a hard character to get most of the time. Most of the time it seems like he is doing nothing more than flaming people, and than the next he is being normal. I personally think he just likes to be annoying as a way to get satisfaction. Enough w/ me posting, I have posted more in the last 2 days here, than I have in the last 6 months. That includes here and Trekweb. MCCSaxman My problem tonight isn't a "bug." It's overwork and lack of sleep, trying to get two sets of proofs back and forth (e-mail is WONDERFUL, and so are .pdf proofs!) in time to meet a self-imposed deadline. Got so wound up last night that "Voyager" followed by a B5 tape didn't get me ready to sleep...and I just finished tonight's round. If the city decides to do snow removal outside my bedroom from 11 to 3 or from 3 to 7, complete with flashing strobe lights and honking backup alarms and heavy equipment going SCRAPE along the pavement, I think I'm going to be on sick leave tomorrow for a good reason: my staff told me to either get some sleep or stay home! (Janeway isn't the only one whose menfolk gang up on her occasionally.) But it's worth it. I held "Exile's End," first paperback copy, in my hands this afternoon. I do hope you and Pixie and other afflicted ones feel better soon. This can be a rough time of the year, at best. Mulgrew is actually a couple of years younger than him. (NIM) I've heard the same defense before, but you just said it better than I've yet seen. And Murphy Brown! Double yes! (Heavens, I loved that show. Jason wrote: And IMO that Jaffen guy wouldn't stand a chance in a fight between either Mike and I for Janeway. Yeah, I'd kick his scrawny butt so hard his father would feel it And just once I'd like to see her have a "real" romance where she isn't out to trick the enemy, or messing with a hologram, or with her mind brainwashed :^). Oh and I agreed with the other stuff you wrote too especially about Chakotay not being completely true to form and side-stepping the role of conciliator between Kim and the Doctor. Maybe Chuck was in a hurry, but who was being left in charge on Voyager was extremely important and it wasn't like him to say "work it out between yourselves". Personally I thought Doc proved he was up to the task, after all he saved the ship single handedly. BTW-I enjoyed how Tom and B'Elanna managed to find each other even with their past lives erased...[sniffle]...those two. Oh, and did Chakotay really have to traumatize B'Elanna like that in the dark ally? I mean after all she is an expectant mother for crying out loud! Mike PS-There was an SG-1 episode with a very similar plot to this... It was called 'Beneath the Surface'. Mike In defense of the TrekWeb review While O.Deus's tagline for Part 2 may be insulting, I found his review very intelligently written and perceptive. His point about Janeway finding joy in a life without the burden of command seems to me to be the most obvious theme in Workforce.
Janeway really seemed to be enjoying herself for the first time in years. Maybe more than ever. This might be the first time since her teen years that she's been free of responsibilities. And maybe the first time, she's not been driven by ambition of a successful Starfleet career. I expect Mark and her other fellows always took second place with her. Frankly, I liked her boyfriend. I kinda liked the guy in 11:59 and the guy in Fair Haven. It seems like practically any love interest on this show for a female character is nearly universally trashed as dull, unattractive, old, or just plain unsuitable for that woman. Unless he is a drop-dead hunk. It applies to boyfriends of Kes and Seven, too. And it applies to the female love interests, too, mostly. I guess people on this board don't want strangers connecting up with *their* favorite characters. Kashyck was almost an exception but many people despised him. Me, I liked most of them. Okay, not that Forgettable babe but the rest. D'A... what can I say... I've had "practice" on that one! One advantage (?) of weird working hours, is that sometimes I can be awake all night. 13 years ago I can ROYALLY P-O'ed at an impotent little man who thought he "could" be King. I came home one evening to hear "He who shall be nameless" rip into a fictional FEMALE character who had sex maybe TWICE during the first 4 years of her series. Who was faced with the Consequences of her actions, and who took a step which WAS in agreement with a major "Plank" in his party's platform... and yet she was SAVAGED/RIDICULED as a "supposedly intelligent, professional woman" setting a BAD example for our youth because she decided to have/raise her child as a single mother. Unfortunately for him... I was "called out" that night... and by the time I was "done"... I'd complained enough about that weasel that I "had" to do something. Instead of bed (and since Jules' Nebula wasn't around to keep me company in the middle of the night. To his boss's wife. It was 3 pages long, by the time I was done, and one of the guys up with me that night "edited" it for me. By the time the morning shift showed up, I had dozens of women who were hotter than hades over the same subject... and I showed them my letter. Thats when they started asking to cosign it. Thats when I decided to approach other women in the building... and 2 days later off it went... with the signatures of 90 + "supposedly intelligent, professional women" attached. Want to know why I think Barabra wrote back? (She did, in a large envelope with cardboard in it to keep the letter from creasing)... because I sent a copy of the letter and signatures to the senior woman in Bush's cabinet, to the senior woman in the senate and house, to my govenor, my senator, my congressman, to the four "real" women news anchors who attended the "fictional" newswoman's baby shower, and to Ms Winfrey. 13 years later, D'Alaire... and it still hasn't changed. "Cheers'" Sam Malone had sex with more women than live in my hometown... and its MURPHY FREAKING BROWN that got castigated! Kirk has so many women that his best friend and Doctor asked him "What IS IT with you anyway???" in their last movie together... and it's KATHRYN FREAKING JANEWAY, the VIRGINAL not Auburn QUEEN thats a Tramp! I know MCC regrets that choice of words... but I find its the freudian slips that tell us the most about society. Sigh. Sorry... I'll climb off my soapbox now for (I hope) another 13 years. D47 Re: "The writers never abused Spock in this way" Oh, I don't know. I seem to remember Spock crying tears for his mother in that "Naked Now" ep. Then he seemed to be forced by some power (Plato's Stepchildren?) to recite ridiculous rhymes and laugh uncontollably. I think it was the "spores make everybody happy" one that had him throwing over his Captain/ship/responsibility so he could rekindle a relationship with a previous "interest". Speaking of throwing things over for love... there also was the "step back in time" and regress to "prelogical times" where he felt quite capable of not only eating/enjoying animal flesh... but quite willing and able to enjoy the female companion also sentenced to that frozen wastezone even as he fought off the Doc's attempts to escape. (For an asexual vulcan/human First officer on the Enterprise... he had "more" opportunities in his 3 years on TOS that poor hapless Harry Kim has had on his 7 years of Voy. And we won't even mention how young Harry Kim's opportunities have drawfed the # of romantic escapades afforded Voyager's "First officer.) D47 Let me get this straight, Mindy... am I correct in thinking... ...that you LOVED this episode?
D47 Re: Mike posted: I didn't like Katie's boyfriend, starting with that scene where he rudely told Chakotay and Neelix not to join them in that bar after Katie had invited them. What, he couldn't ask her to move in with him at some other time? Funny thing is something about his face reminded me of Chuck. I liked him at first but then....grrrrrrr. I agree about Jaffen being really rude and there is no excuse for it. To me it's an attempt to keep Janeway from having friends or a life outside of him and that is extremely troubling. Isolating a partner from others is a sign of control not love. Just as the Quarren are controlling not helping their employees find happiness. Re: Continuity... hey D! Did you notice the female Chakotay was "checking out" as the supervisor was introducing him to his station. The "Interesting species" one? I swear that was the female ensign from "Displaced" that had the Tactical position as the aliens invaded the bridge. Also, the young guy in sickbay with all the radiation burns... wasn't he the one from "Memorial" that Janeway sat next to/ commiserating on how "I've seen you look better, ensign"? I thought it was neat, that after a year, we saw "The spud aliens" from TTDS last week... and this week we see the "ECH" from the same show. (Speaking of continuity, I also loved it when Seven brought up the fact that the Doc still hasn't chosen a name, after all these years. D47 Yes, Terry, but the thing is... she really isn't OWN Janeway She's been brainwashed after all... her DQ memories suppressed, so there's no telling (at least until next week when she regains her memory) how she'd react to her love interest once things return to normal and the real Janeway emerges. From what I see, this is sort of split-personality Janeway here. Ok, maybe I'm just miffed about the fact that Tuvok isn't a eligible bachelor like the rest ...Tom, as of several months ago not included, but at least he had his run. And now that you've mentioned those Spock eps Deb I see your point. But at least Spock was able to pursue a relationship as he sot fit. Tuvok has potential, but his ethical delimma doesn't leave much room. Re: That's interesting, Quince. To just set the record straight, O Deus is not a sexist, and, in fact, has always been one of the few men at TrekWeb to shoot down obnoxious, sexist posts. I used to post there when it was still a primitive bb and had a cordial relationship with him. I personally think he's an excellent critic even though I frequently disagree with him. I'm sure that remark neither of us liked much was just Odie lobbing one of his sardonic hand grenades. Editor's note... Make that "9 years"... not 13. Sorry guys... I was tired and my mind was not completely awake last night. D47 Long enough, anyway, Deb. What can I say? You've said it all, eloquently. Nina, O'Deus cannot write reviews. However, his spelling has remarkably improved. Why they ever picked him to write them is beyond sense. Mrs. Mac Well, perhaps in Part 2 we'll see Kathryn realizing how controlling her new "friend" is. I have an idea that after seven years of being on duty most of the time, on call all of the time, she's got a huge need (and a natural one for ANY human being) to let someone else take control - just for a little while. That's very convenient for the Quarren in general, and for her boyfriend in particular; but it's not going to last. Emotionally I think she's where she might be if she'd finally made it home, and was relaxing at last among her loved ones and OFF DUTY IN CAPS. That's great for a little while. But if her command self kicks in, rested up and recharged, just as she starts to realize something's wrong - that she doesn't belong where she is, living this life - oh, heck. If I don't stop, I'm going to be writing Part 2 here and now. But that is the nature of being a Starfleet captain. OF COURSE Mark took second place. What annoys me is the implicit assumption that because Janeway is a woman, her significant other should come before all else in order for her to be fulfilled - which is not always the same thing as "happy." As for why I think she behaves as she does when relieved of command's burdens temporarily, I just wrote it elsewhere and I'm too lazy to copy it here. I'm willing to take your word for it, Quince. But I do wonder if he knows how he sounds to a person just happening by? More power to you, Deb! I don't remember Janeway taking a vow of celibacy, but she might almost have. Kirk, on the other hand....well, it's hard to take his feelings seriously sometimes. Add me to the Murphy Brown list! Sherry Re: More power to you, Deb! - me too. (NIM) Yea, she'll kick some Quarren ass... and Jaffen's in particular.. Seriously.... Really, I'm serious here... When I go to the supermarket there's this huge shelf of veggie chicken (has the exact same taste and texture as chicken, but is made from soy beans or mushrooms or something like that.. I don't really know They're both in their mid-40's which was what I meant by "about the same age"(NIM) Re: Continuity... hey D! They really have been doing a better job with continuity this season. That engineering ensign has been in the background on several shows over the years, I think. Didn't notice if the woman was the security officer from "Displaced"; I'll pay attention when I watch again. It wasn't "abuse" until the end, Deb. The first story you mentioned, THE NAKED TIME, was a tour-de-force for Nimoy and was the first time viewers were actually allowed to see the two halves of Spock's legacy at odds. THIS SIDE OF PARADISE was the spores story, and was the first time we saw Spock in any kind of real relationship with a lady, be she Vulcan or human. It also added to Spock's back story in the character of Leila Kalomi (spelling?) played by Jill Ireland, btw, who died of breast cancer not too long ago. Both these stories occurred in the first year, when the groundworks of our ST mythology waas being laid...however, by the third season, poor Spock was abused in lots of stories, not just the "Ode to a Grecian Urn" you mentioned...the most notorious being, of course, SPOCK'S BRAIN. Tuvok has gotten off easy! Mindy Re: Seriously....Oh, I was serious, Ivy. I know there are lots of,,, meat dishes in which the main ingredient (animal flesh of one kind or another) can be substitued by vegetables or soy or tofu. And I'm sure they probably have even more sophisticated possibilities in VOYAGER's 24th century. Mindy P.S. Never have heard of veggie salami, though. I think that one is a product of my imagination. All the others I mentioned are real products. No. I didn't see anythng so horrible in Deus's review, either, Terry. My impression had been, from reading these posts, that he tore the episode apart. Then I read it last night. He did't do that at all. And Terry is right...one of the reasons Biller et.al. even did WORKFORCE was because they wanted to explore a side of Janeway we just don't see when she's in her regular mode...and raise some questions about the choices we make and the effects those choices have on the way we live our lives. I liked her boyfriend, too, btw, Terry. What I still can't understand is how he liked VOID! Mindy Re: A very nice lady who posts at the... So, it are not the real scripts? Ah whatever, every little spoiler keeps me happy. And it is nice of her to transcript complete episodes. ...and B'lanna, and Seven, and Samantha Wildman, and the entire female crew!!!!!!! And no excuses!!! GrrrrrrlPower!!!!
Mindy They're the real deal. They're just not the final cut--which the director would do, if they don't ad-lid it a little. But they have been very, very close to the final product. BTW--Part 2's going to be GREAT! Re: Entire Female crew? Uhh Mindy... I'm afraid I "have" to draw the line at NAOMI Wildman!
D47 "Brain, Brain... what is Brain!" Ohhhh you are right about "that" one Mindy, how could I forget such a "classic"? I wasn't suggesting those 1st two stories were "bad"... just that TPTB have taken Spock over the edge in the past, just as they seem to like to take Tuvok over the edge. Its the "logical" thing to do... show the dramatic potential of taking the character out of their normal environment or pattern of actions. D47 (Nina...And I never got audited by the IRS!) You know... I briefly wondered if sending that (first) letter would somehow come back to bite me on the behind. Oh well, the price you pay for democracy. D47 Sherry, I remember when Monday night was "Must see TV"... "Murphy Brown", followed by "Designing Women". Sigh.
D47 Thanks, Malcolm, now getting back to "Workforce"... did you notice... how good "Annika Hansen" looked without the catsuit? I had to "rewatch" it last night with friends, and was impressed with how toned down she appeared. It really lets you concentrate on her FACE. Later I was also fortunate to catch the tail end of the syndicated repeat "Relativity" and was struck by how great Jeri Ryan looks in a NORMAL starfleet uniform. (I'm with-holding comment on the red job from the promos... some things I just have to leave to the YAMS in the group to critique. Wouldn't it be nice if as Janeway "comes to" in part 2... she also sees the difference and suggests Seven start wearing (ahem) less distinctive clothing on board? Hey... didn't I already remind everyone how often I practice the art of self delusion?
D47 Re: a bit of a rip-off. Actually, AC you said pretty much what I was thinking while watching it. It is Beneath the Surface all over again. The only thing different is that they are taking some more time with the story. I also liked Janeway in this one. SHe is so much fun as a new recruit type character. There were a couple comments that struck me as amusing, but rather obvious humor - her comments about her last job, and maybe I've lost my mind. And Tom being interested in B'Elanna is strongly reminscent of Jack still being interested in Sam, despite the altered memories. At least they get a happy ending Andrea Oh, absolutely, Debs!!!! I meant ... the adult crew of course. Mindy Monday with Murphy on CBS... ...was definitely must-see. But I recall Mondays even further back, and with as much love: Cagney and Lacey. And then there was China Beach... sigh! CBS in the good ol' days. Sorry... I didn't realise your intent... ....and I'm sure that they'll have your veggie salami by then, as well!! Re: Two weeks. Mindy, thats exactly how long... B'Elanna told Tom she'd been coming to the bar/diner, the first day they'd met. And Janeway hadn't "cooked" anything Thats why I have to rewatch these things... I don't pay "close enough" attention to everything the first time through!) D47 Re:PS-There was an SG-1 episode with a very similar plot to this... Striking similiarities.... :-0 But I loved when Doc and Harry were fighting over who was going to command. It made Doc look and feel a little more than just a hologram. I am curious about part II. Will Janeway or will she not, that is the question. I think once her memories return she will find it hard to give up the hunk. {ok Eric you can quit laughing I know I am just a romantic at heart, but I have my own evil designs on that subject. So ;-P} WORKFORCE (speculation): Did Tuvok wake Seven up? No, I haven't read the spoilers for part two, but looking at a lot of stray evidence, I'm really starting to wonder how the crew will return to their normal lives in Part Two. A lot of it stems to the Tuvok forced mind-meld scene on Seven of Nine. In that scene, he mind melds with her and we see a flash of Seven in her alcove, waking up and stepping out. When they showed that, I thought maybe he had "revived" Seven of Nine. But as he immediately got pulled away, there didn't seem to be any indication of that. Now, I'm not so sure. Re-watching the scene, Seven didn't have any lines after Tuvok was pulled away, and she cried out for help before he mind-melded with her. Also, Seven looked a little dizzy, as if her real persona MIGHT have been revived. The previews for next week show her acting her normal self. Also, I saw a promotional picture of Torres for next week's episode. In it, she seemed to be in casual attire and looking at a picture, as if the crew was trying to remind her of who she really is. That suggests to me that the Doctor cannot, immediately at least, restore the crew's original memories through medical procedures. Is Tuvok it? Is he the key, and has he already "liberated" Seven of Nine? I think the scene can be interpreted both ways. Did anyone else have a take on this scene? Jason Re (speculation): Now THIS post I'll read! Because like Jason, I'm trying my darndest NOT to be spoiled. I suspect that Tuvok has "opened the floodgate" of Seven's memory, but that as of the end of that meld scene, the waters hadn't yet rushed through. Seven still "looked" like "Annika Hansen" at the end of that scene, slightly frightened/unsure of herself. Unlike her "wakeup scene" in "The Killing Game" where she suddenly LOOKED like the uptight Borg drone in the middle of that singing number. My suspicion is that when Annika goes to sleep at night, she starts dreaming of Voyager... and her former self slowly reasserts itself... Now... my OTHER fav speculation is "how does Chakotay escape from that firefight"? IS he hale and hearty, or wounded? You know how Kathryn can't resist helping a wounded ship/man. (Thanks for putting "spoiler warnings" in your posts everyone. Keep up the good work!) D47 Well, this isn't just what you asked, but you reminded me. I wonder, how can Seven go without regenerating all this time? I thought he "touched" her for a moment, Jason... ...but didn't have contact long enough to have any permanent effect...sort of like giving her a "daydream" or a "deja vu" feeling, know what I mean? In other words, I think she shrug it off...at least, this time. I do hope, however, that the mind-meld isn't going to be "deus ex machina" of this so-far great episode. It's been used too many times, not only in VOYAGER, but in TOS and the movies. I am going to VERY DISAPPOINTED if it comes down to Tuvok recovering his mind and then going around mesmerizing people with his touchy-feely fingers. But I didn't have the feeling that psycho-Tuvok really knew what he was doing when he attempted to meld w/Seven...to me it seemed like he was acting more on instinct than on logic. Same with his conversations with Janeway, et. al. Mindy I think if you'll remember... The Doc took her to the galley (mess hall?) a couple of seasons ago, and she "ate." I always thought she just didn't LIKE eating, and preferred regenerating. I don't know if the food ALSO services all of her hardware & implants; I imagine the batteries need to be changed every now & then... Flite Clarifying the question - You're right, she's been eating for some time now; but as far as I know, Seven regenerates for the same purpose the rest of us sleep. When Icheb was about to return to his parents, they had to make arrangements for their son to regenerate for several hours each night...apparently ex-Borg who spent time in maturation chambers (i.e., who were assimilated as children) continue to require regeneration as a substitute for or in addition to sleep. Seven can't possibly be doing that on the Quarren world, can she? Or is there a portable alcove substitute we haven't seen yet, that she took along when the crew boarded the escape pods? Re: Portable alcoves... Good point, Nina... and I think your answer is quite relevant. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find that Voyager as always had at least 1 escape pod equipped with a portable regeneration unit, for this very reason. Good thing Icheb lost his cortical node... Perhaps this means he doesn't have to regenerate anymore? If so... then where does HE sleep on Voyager now?
D47 I wonder that, too! I would think Icheb is through needing to regenerate. Have we seen the cargo bay, with Seven using her alcove, since he donated his cortical implant to her? If so, was his alcove gone? Or if there, empty? Ah, Caretaker. It's on in syndication tonight...I'm falling in love all over again.
Personally I could never do the maths on those regeneration cubicles. Four cubicles. Four Borg kids (not including the baby). One Seven. It's been a long time since I was taught basic arithmetic, but I was definitely taught that five into four doesn't go. So. Did they take shifts? Jules LOL! Do you suppose the twins only needed one? (My brother and sister who ARE twins would get me if they saw that.) I didn't see the ep, so I don't know, but... ....you can probably blame it on Braga I seriously think that they left it out, because it was just too inconvenient for them to have to answer that question. And then we nagging fans have to go on and on about it.. poor staff.. Of course he did. It's the only way Seven can save the day Shadda (who can't seem to get over the disappointment she felt after reading about the rest of the season) I think Seven continues to regenerate rather than sleep because its more "efficient" When she was first disconnected Doc said she'd need to continue regenerating for a while, not forever. There have been other episodes [YOH, Tsunkatse, Nightengale, The Void (no power)]where she couldn't have been regenerating either and did fine. Unless she's recovering from injuries she probably only needs to regenerate a few hours a week, if at all. | ||
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![[The Voyager Crew]](../images/voyager_crew.jpg)
Interesting so far, but a bit of a rip-off.
Me too, david
