The Coffee Nebula Board is for the discussion of Star Trek: Voyager and other sci-fi/cult shows. This is its Archive of episode discussions, top ten lists, fan fiction, and other miscellaneous musings.
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"Who would have thought that this eclectic group of voyagers could actually become a family. Starfleet, Maquis, Klingon, Talaxian, hologram, Borg... even Mr Paris." |
ShatteredShredded! This isn't just an episode--this is a most hilarious trip down memory lane! ..oops! Commercials look like they almost finally over. I'm loving this. It ended very well but mostly it was boring. Maybe I've just lost the ability to enjoy Voyager. Because while I found the concept intriguing, the execution bored me. You'd think a story with the ship shattered into different time periods would be an exciting ensemble show. Instead, this was mostly Janeway and Chakotay talking to each other as they briefly review moments of Voyager's past. I thought the show felt like a show from Voyager's first three years in the opening moments. But it lost his way and nothing happened for about 30 minutes. The ending - reset button! But I can't see how anything else could happened. I did enjoy the ending where the crew from several different time periods joined together to fight Seska. But it was too brief. I imagine J/Cers must have loved this ep. But all of the J/C gab bored me until the final scene. Which was very good. The acting seemed flat for the most part. Even Seska had very little energy. Re: SHATTERED Discussion Area (NIM) I just finished watching the episode, and I absolutly loved it! this has good things for everyone: tecnobabble, continuity, even some j/c! I am totally impressed, despite some believibility flaws. You just have to go with the story, then you have a wonderful hour! And of course, when I say that... ...five minutes later, Tuvvy bites the dust. sob! Actually, the only bad thing about this episode is that I have to go to sleep (yeah right) asap. waaah! Well, there's always tomorrow. In short--I loved it. Great all the way through, a J/C'er's delight (yeeeeeees! What fun!), great memories from every season, so many laughs and "inside jokes," and yes, a couple poignant points and a great speech by Chak followed by "Are you going to lecture me like this for the next seven years?" --"Don't worry. You always get the last word." "Remind me to suspend Mr. Paris' holodeck privileges." --Bwahahahaaaa! Too many good lines to write them all out. And did they ever raid the prop & fx closets! Did I say how nice it was to go down memory lane? When that Macrovirus came flying out of nowhere, I almost hurt myself laughing! It did remind me why is was good that the Kazon were dumped, even though it was great to see Seska again. I'm also glad all over again that poor Doc got his holo-emmitter. But all in all, this ep really made me smile. Great Chak, great Kate (with the bun to boot! There were even neat FX in this one, neato anomaly and temporal walls--whatever. Cool stuff. Whole lotta fun. Something tells me this is going to be another re-watch-o-rama from this season. Rats. It is already 10:20??? Next week: Lineage--finally! Looks like that script wasn't as far off as I'd thought it might be. We'll see. Easily My Favorite Ep of the Season Though i DO see what you mean about the sluggishness, Terry (more on this in a sec), SHATTERED was easily my favorite ep of the year. I had no idea that Michael Taylor had such an ardent love, or at least intimate familiarity, w/VOY lore. and this is the best Chak outing since UNITY--easy. I thought the ep did a great job of cramming itself full of tidbits from VOY that even had this VOY-aholic trying to keep up (ok, once or twice!)...i LOVED, LOVED the climax! I cheered when you-know-who was dispatched by a you-know-what! ive always dreamed of a battle btwn these villainnesses (and i finally got it). i absolutely loved Chakotay i this in a way i havent since S3. he was so calmly in control yet he seemed most himself, anyway--not vacant and bored but actually present, again. i absolutely howled when Janeway said, "It sounds like there's going to be one disaster after another!" the episode is a good reminder that many, many interesting developments HAVE taken place on VOY... i think actually my chief disappointment with this episode was the pacing...if Braga were here, ive no doubt the ep wouldve been jazzier, more adrenalized... and Mulgrew seemed curiously detached in this episode...i guess that does work to suggest a Janeway still at Utopia Planita docking-port, unable to quite believe the goings-on...but still, i wish my dear Mulgrew had seemed a bit happier. but the pacing in some ways affirmed that this was a very meta-, postmodern bit of VOY, italicizing at every turn that it was a self-deconstruction. this is VOY looking back upon its career w/a cool, critical eye. the bravura energy i wouldve wanted would have placed this ep in S3's "Worst Case Scenario" mood...this is a much more self-conscious and -critical episode. inveterate J/Cer that i am, i certainly wanted more...but i was happy to see the issue at least acknowledged. this seems to me a classic bit of S7...Biller's regime has given us a VOY that recalls S1 in its evenhanded interest in all characters, its willingness to take things a bit more slowly so that we can savor the moment...it's also somewhat unexciting, plodding. Yet i found myself very pleased and even, at times--in the Dante quote scene--moved by what i saw tonight. david g initial response to "shattered" Overall, I liked it, although it was a bit lightweight (most of the time travel stories are, it seems.) Given that this is Voyager's last season, it felt a little like a way to try to remind viewers of some of the past episodes, perhaps to keep interest going for old episodes in syndication. I *do* have one nit: When Janeway "burned" the roast (I know she's done this before, but how can you burn anything in a replicator? It's not an oven--you just program it for rare, medium, or (for me) well-done) what happened to earlier candlelit dinners when she respected Chakotay's vegetarianism and provided exotic-sounding meatless dishes? Or did I miss something like Chakotay giving up vegetarianism in some earlier episode? Otherwise, it was OK, sort of like skipping the main course and jumping from the appetizer to desert (gosh, I'm hungry tonight!) IMHO, Lauren Somebody call the cops, Voyager was in VIOLATION! Voyager is supposed to suck but it just ROCKED! Wow, i have been b*tching that no episode this season has knocked my socks off, well they went flying tonight. Of course they had to play a little trick to make it good. Year seven blows, so what do we do? Go back in time to when Voyager was GOOD. Lets see... We revist the year of Seska! COOL! We revist Macrovirus! AWESOME! We revist Scorpion! YeeeHAW! And just to put the iceing on the cake for those of us who miss a certain blonde pixie... The introduction of Pixie Naomi!!! You know, this one was so good after a long (VERY LONG) dry spell of suckitude that i will not nitpick this one. Nope, i'm in a good mood thanks to this wonderful surprise. I'm going to give shattered a free ride. Long live Pixie Naomi!!! Eric Well, i hate to agree with David (you know i love ya right? I thought i lost the ability to enjoy Voyager also! But when they finaly do a little work like they did here it can be magic again. Maybe it was just revisting my old favorites again but this was just so GOOD. *sigh* I know this can't last. I know next week will suck again, but for now i am going to enjoy a happy gush. It's good to like Voyager again, if only for a week. Eric Right back atcha, you big Kes-fiend! Hey, just go w/the VOY-love flow! NIM Shattered is how I felt... Deflated, let down even. What was that? What were they thinking? This must be one of those concepts that sound so good on paper. Ugh. I hate weak clip shows, where they clip together scenes from past episodes to make it look like a new one (ala TNG's "Shades of Grey"). This was just one step above a clip show. TNG's "All Good Things" is a similar idea that came off better. Maybe because "All Good Things" was two parts, or maybe because they only focused on 3 time frames. Yuk. And I was looking forward to finally seeing a new Star Trek. I mean, it wasn't terrible. But it just wasn't exciting. Sometimes it bordered on comedic. On with the nits: Why did Chakotay go to Engineering? Does he usually go to Engineering when there is a problem with an anomaly? Yes, I know they said there was trouble with the Warp Core, but does he normally handle such things? Just a lame excuse to get him involved. Would have worked better if he was in Engineering to begin with. Much more believable, and in character, for him to pop in and see B'Elanna. They brought Seska back for that? What a waste. Suddenly there is a corridor from the Captain's Ready Room. Where did that come from? From everything I've seen in the past, the Captain's Ready Room is on Deck 1, off the Bridge. There is no such corridor. An adult Echeb and Naomi. I bet no explination will be given as to how that future timeline will not occurr. Another wasted scene. All in all it was just a letdown. Such a shame too. Oh well, there is always Farscape. Shawnster SHATTERED is at its most appealing as a Chak episode. It makes me love him again. But hey, lauren, did he also START drinking wine or ale in another episode? im glad that Chak could savor a drink... but i thought he DIDnt drink. Janeway COULD have been roasting...squash, right? david g, happy to be a VOYAGER! Shawnster, not to try and change your mind... but what the heck! i thought that this was more than just a clip show--it really seemd to me that a careful hand had sifted through episodes to find choice bits of interest. o well. plus that Dante-in-the-corridor scene is one of my all time favorite scenes in VOY. you mean you didnt like the climax? david g Shattered (spoiler) I thought shattered was a pretty good flick. Was very nice to finally have a new episode again. As was pointed out on Trekweb awhile back (sorry I haven't actively lurked here for awhile so someone else may have mentioned this too) it is amazing what kind of story you can get if you complain long and loud. Chuckles did a good job, kind of rigid but I think that is just the way he acts. Tuvok's death scene was pretty moving, I almost shedded a tear. Sorry for the rambling. MCCSaxman PS been awhile since I have been here, but I remember the "old" timers from the PsiPhi board before it crashed. Shattered -- not perfect, but very enjoyable I haven't really LOVED many episodes this season. I *liked* Drive, but for the most part Voyager had ceased to excite me, and I just watched out of wanting to see how everything tied up. This episode was an extremely pleasant surprise! I haven't seen Janeway and Chakotay work so well together in a long time. Chakotay actually was emoting! And it was a good part for him, not just one he got stuck with because all the other characters had stuff to do and he needed to be shoehorned in somewhere. I was a bit disappointed in Seska -- Martha Hacket didn't bring as much fire to her as usual, but the ending where the different crew members from different time frames joined together to fight her was good. Nice bits -- Chakotay's reception on the bridge, and taking Janeway "hostage." The macrovirus. *snicker* "It sounds like one disaster after another." Janeway's eye rolling at Chaotica. "The Eighth Dimension." "There are only five!" And when Chakotay said, "There are some barriers we've never crossed," I swear I could hear thwarted J/Cers howling across the nation. I feel for you, honestly. I'm not a huge fan of the pairing, but that was a cruel line. etc, etc... aside from Seska & the Kazon, this episode left me very happy. Here's hoping TPTB can keep up the momentum. AC Okay, this was a keeper It could have been tightened up a bit and I was hoping for more ensemble acting, but this was a real romp. Not being a fan of the J/C pairing I wasn't expecting much, but the comradarie between them worked very well. They definately make good best buds. When I first saw Kathryn, in her power bun, I was pleased, but noticed her face was considerably rounder then when she first wore that bun. I think the she and McNeill are back there in their isolated trailers having parties... and they're both bringing the snacks. Not that she looks bad, please, I think she is quite beautiful, but we are all aging. It was fun, I enjoyed, now I'm going to bed and taking care of this ugly cold. Perhaps someone could send a certain "chief medic" over to fluff my pillow and bring me my medicine Shadda Ho hum. Not too bad, not too good There were definitely things to like about the episode. As someone noted, this was first clever use of VOY's bio circuitry. I liked Chaotica (the actor) -- he really gets into his role. It was fun watching him ham it up. It was nice to see Chakotay being proactive and Janeway actually relying on him, although it took her a while to trust him. Isn't it funny that Seska figures almost right away that something is wrong and trying to follow Chakotay would be a bad idea, while Janeway takes a little while to put it together. I've always thought Chakotay and Janeway has good chemistry. Actually, I think when given good lines, Beltran has good chemistry with most of the other characters (like Torres, Seven, Neelix, Harry, TUvok), but there has to be substantive interactions to work. I liked the Maquis in the transporter room -- maybe its the clothes. Things that I didn't like or felt was a little off. Seven didn't act like a Borg. The final engineering scene. Where did everyone come from? Actually, that howling you heard . . . wasn't from J/Cer's who felt they were thwarted, but all those J/C's who thought the relationship was dead, in any incarnation, suddenly being revived, AC. Frankly, ardent J/Cer that I am, that line just proved everything I've ever thought since "Resolutions" first aired -- that the two of them never crossed that barrier, and never *would,* while Voyager was still in the Delta Quadrent. I think the people dissapointed are the section in fandom who believes that something *is* going on between them, and has been since that episode. Oh, and having read that spoiler script over a month ago, I was supried that it was 99% point for point acurate. Only the scene where Janeway and Chakotay discuss "Dante's Inferno" was a suprise, (a nice one), because it wasn't in that script. Anyway this was a fun episode for us fans who've been watching the show form day one and remember all the little "moments" in Voyager history. It's one of those eps that you don't over analyze too much, or all the fun is taken from it. I haven't look forward to many episode this season. ("Repression" one one, but that ep ended too quickly IMO, therefore disapointing me). I was looking forwad to "Shattered," and I wasn't disapointed -- I knew it would just be a fun ep, and it was. Now if "Workforce" and the Final episode meet what I hope for, season seven may not be my favorite but I can rank it as at least pleasent. Carol Re: It ended very well but mostly it was boring. I thought the episode was a hoot! However, along Terry's lines I thought the beginning was a bit choppy. It didn't flow well and the answers to the problems came waaay to quickly. However, I think the whole thing would have flowed better with better music, of all things. The music did not support the action at all. Mac nailed the macrovirus. He said, "I bet we see a giant tse-tse fly." I'm very glad I didn't read or see any spoilers about this ep. It made it all the more enjoyable. Even Beltran had fun with it. Alas, only Kes was missing but it was nice to see Seska (a little older) again. Lots of fun, and a good salute to Voyager. Mrs. Mac SHATTERED: or how to cram 7 years into 42 minutes What a hoot! What great lines! What a teaser for J/Cers, Gordy and I heard you howl with the "we never cross barriers" line. And, for once, I enjoyed Seven's entrance and being a hero. The way Seven barges in at the end and takes out Seska had me rolling. And, what a great Chak episode. Beltran, when given good material, does a respectable job. Thank you Biller. I have to watch this episode again, I know I missed a few lines. I am still laughting at the Captain Proton scene. Di Ditto, Carol! After all, Chakotay only knows the future up to 7 years. His line is therefore inaccurate - although I don't mind, you understand! How can he know they "never" cross that famous barrier? (Evil chuckle, evil chuckle.) Minor nits (other than the vanishing without explanation of Chakotay's vegetarianism and teetotaling...writers found them inconvenient, is my take on that): Since when is Voyager our captain's "first command"? And since when is there a way to leave the ready room that doesn't take you across the bridge? Generally I'm not a fan of retrospective scripts; they often leave me feeling cheated. "This is what happens when we, the writers, don't have an idea for a NEW script." Not this time!!! For me the framing story worked very nicely, and I think that's because we saw the "present day" characters interacting with the "past" characters (retrospectives are usually a collection of clips from old episodes strung together with the framing story). Lots of plain old FUN here, plus almost non-stop J/C interaction. Yum! Yum! Wooo Hooo! Voyager is back! And I don't just mean back from reruns. I mean that the Voyager I fell in love with showed up again last night after a long absence. Great story, great characters, great dialog, it's been a long time since I have enjoyed an episode as much as I did Shattered. LOL when Janeway asked if Chak was going to lecture her like that for the next 7 years and he said "Don't worry, you always get the last word." And of course I was thrilled to see the return of the Chakotay that I love. What was it Janeway said..."Not only a warrior, but a philosopher?" And did you see?...Robert Beltran really can act! I told you so! I can't wait to watch Shattered again. Of course, it may take a day or two to clean my TV up. Those rotten tomatoes I flung at the screen when Chakotay told Kathryn, "Let's just say there are some barriers we never cross," made quite a mess. Vickie I only wish Voyager had been as well-paced or as emotionally moving. I'm with Terry and Shawn and a couple of others on this one--could this clever idea of a show have been any more poorly paced, poorly directed, or low energy? "Shattered" should have been a sparkly gem of an episode, like "Worst Case Scenario", but it just sort or meandered about. Frankly, it looked like someone on the creative team was being intellectually and dramatically lazy. There was almost no real dramtic tension, little insightful commentary (what an incredible missed opportunity), and no laughs. And don't get me started on how badly used Tom and Tuvok (and, for that matter, Neelix) were. Ginny Well, THIS hasn't happened in a long time. I actually want to watch a Voyager episode a second time! "Shattered" pulled the show back together for me again, at least for one episode. It amused me to no end that (with the exception of Icheb and Naomi grown up and Captain Proton), all the major plot points and references came from Seasons 1 through very early 4. Nothing in Seasons 5 and 6 worth remembering, perhaps? Nina mentioned one of my small nits, the comment about Janeway's "first command". I believe that directly contradicts what Tuvok said about her in "Night", but I was having so much fun I decided to interpret it as her first command of Voyager and get on with the party. The only other weak spots for me were the scenes with Naomi and Icheb as adults, since I couldn't figure out how they managed to age 17 years, get promoted, improve the sensors, etc. without being able to move freely around the ship. The bridge scenes also seemed a bit vague to me -- they apparently took place in a time when Voyager hadn't yet left DS9, since Harry was on board, and I kind of thought they should at least say something about trying to get DS9 OPS to help them figure out what had happened, or calling Odo to come arrest Chakotay, or something like that. But those things didn't spoil my enjoyment of what was essentially a great romp. ("Don't tell me about the future. Uhh, on second thought, maybe you'd better fill me in. . ." "Mr. Paris has unsophisticated taste in entertainment." "That's why we love him.") And there was just enough poignance in a few of the scenes, notably the reference to Janeway's copy of Dante and Tuvok's death scene, to make the whole thing feel just right. It felt, in fact, like the Voyager I used to love. Even if it's only for one episode, I'm glad to see it back. MEG A Valentine for the LongTerm Viewer 'Fess up, Deb47 --- you wrote this ep! Ronit (who could hear those happy J/C er squeals all through the night) Why, yes, it was! I know, because I already have it on tape from the first time it aired. It was really very considerate of them to coordinate the reruns of Voyager and TWW like that, and I'd like to express my appreciation to TPTB for doing so. MEG This coulda been the finale. The very few spoilers I've heard about the final arc have me concerned. If it doesn't turn out to my liking, I'll take this as the finale. ROnit Re: SHATTERED...Comme Ce, Comme Ca--2.0 on the Richter Scale... BTW, there was a small earthquake (2.5 Richter) here in Manhattan yesterday morning--not that I felt it, but I read about it on the Fox News Channel news streamer that circles its studios as I was walking to the train. Yes, there is a fault line that cuts through northern Manhattan, folks. Anyway, on to last night's episode...I tend to agree with Terry, although I wouldn't classify the episode as exactly boring...what I told Terry is what I will tell you... I thought it was an interesting and original way to do what was essentially a recap show; MUCH better than having Will Riker (Jonathan Frakes) be on the table as Dr. Pulaski looked into his head and Deanna stood by his side holding back tears--Sheesh, was that a poor excuse for a show! Okay, having the adult Naomi and Icheb isn't exactly a recap, but that's a minor point. I do think that it was lazily written...case in point--excuse me, but think about it, guys and gals: if someone--or two people, in this case--you knew to be dead for 17 years suddenly just walked into the room and said, "hi,", would you just say, "Captain?" like you were simply surprised to see them? No. You would either drop dead yourself from shock or think you had lost your mind (or maybe think you were appearing on CROSSING OVER WITH JOHN EDWARDS There were a lot of fun things the writers could have chosen to do, just as there could have been a lot of dramatic things the writers could have chosen to do--however, that's a moot point, isn't it? Again, you are all dealing with someone who now has lowered expectations, remember? I do not blame the actors; but after watching FARSCAPE and BUFFY and ANGEL this year, where the producers and writers are INTO twisting and playing and going off on tangents and into unexpected places, it's so apparent that VOYAGER's writers are not chosen for their willingness to push the envelope, but for their ability to "color within the lines." "Don't take chances," seems to be mantra. Okay. Given that, why do I watch it? Because I'm an ST junkie. I got a "jones" for the Federation. I do love slipping into that universe for an hour or however long as often as I can. And there were lots of things I did like about the show...again, I am so into watching Kate Mulgrew as Janeway this season--it is so apparent that she is loving this. All her little nuances of character that she is no longer afraid to give Janeway--wonderful! And hey, guess what? I even thought Beltran did a fine job!!!! Loved seeing the Maquis crew again as the Maquis. It was neat to see Martha Hackett return as Seska. And I LOVE the "Captain Proton" scenario, and wish we could see more of it. Are there things I would have done differently? Of course! It would have been neat to see Tom & B'lanna's first meeting aboard the ship, knowing what it is to come between them. I would have written sharper dialogue, taken advantage of what was said before, play with the words, double-entendres, etc. I could have done with less Kazon--it would have been more interesting to see Chakotay interacting with "pre-revealed as a Cardassian spy" Seska than with the revealed Seska. But it was a nice hour. Next week looks so intriguing and could be so wonderful--but I don't have my hopes up. I tend to think we saw the best parts of the show in the promo. Mindy I'm with you, Vickie, on the return of Chak. Last time i liked him this much was in... RESOLUTIONS...he was almost as applealing here. Good Chak eps...hmmm...ok: RESOLUTIONS...UNITY..THE FIGHT...SHATTERED. THE FIGHT? why yes. having loathed it during S5, i gave it another chance and actually liked it a lot. david g Re: the return of Chak David wrote: Good Chak eps...hmmm...ok: RESOLUTIONS...UNITY..THE FIGHT...SHATTERED. THE FIGHT? why yes. having loathed it during S5, i gave it another chance and actually liked it a lot. Yes, those are all good Chak episodes. I think Unity is my favorite Chak episode and one of my favorite Voyager episodes. As for The Fight, I liked it as well. The Fight and Nemesis are two Chak episodes that I think people have judged too harshly. Neither of those episodes is perfect. Both, in fact, have some significant flaws. However, both are examples of the writers/directors trying to do something different, trying to take a fresh approach and I think all involved deserved a bit more credit than most of the fans gave them. Of course, to steal (and modify) one of Ginny's lines: I'd watch Robert Beltran sit on stage and read from the phone book, so perhaps my judgement is suspect. Vickie What happened in Season 5 and Six again? I noticed that as well! But it didn't bother me so much since to me the first thre years are BEST. Nope, the only way this could have been even better is if the REAL Kes had shown up for the fun! Eric That makes three of us, then. RB is eye candy and ear candy (I love that voice!). Mmmm, good. Maybe Shattered was Biller's little dig at Braga No mention of Season 5 or 6 happenings, i.e. when Braga was in charge--a little suttle message perhaps. Di Re: Season 5 ? when the guys were passed out in the hall. D47 I don't think so. Wasn't that little virus (the two crewmen unconscious in the hallway) a season 5 episode? Mrs. Mac Not as good as it's going to be tonight. Well, okay, so that's the start of reruns (on a different channel) of the first season, but the new channel that has bought the rights to show season two over here launches tonight, so I have hopes of finally getting to see the resolution to that season-ending cliffhanger sometime this year. Hopefully quite soon. And in the meantime I can catch up on the episodes I missed from the first season. I'll let you know what I think about the pacing of the Voyager episode when I see it. Jules If you're talking about the macrovirus...? Then no. "Macrocosm" was a season three episode. Jules Re: If you're talking about the macrovirus...? No, it was some kind of memory invasion thingie! The flying macrovirus came a little later in the episode. Mrs. M Ive got my "glimpses" on NEMESIS, also. I like NEMESIS a lot, actually...even if it IS a remake of a "Lost in Space" ep i once saw...i agree that, like The FIGHT, it's an ep that takes chances. that ending is extremely powerful, imo. david SHATTERED is Even Better the 2nd Time! seeing it again today--procrastinating from doing Dissertation Work--SHATTERED seemed more seamless, more entertaining, more FUN than it was even last night! i think this is going to be my new favorite episode for a while. i say the chief flaw of the episode is Terry Windell's somewhat out-of-it direction....but who cares. i love SHATTERED! and Mulgrew and Beltran are just such a great team. AGAIN today, i got a catch in my throat at the beautiful Dante scene in the corridor. david g Shattered was a blast!!! We loved it from beginning to end. It was a wonderful episode to show in the final season, a fun little trip down memory lane. And nice to see TPTB aren't above poking a little fun at themselves. Was the plot flawless, no way, nothing is. This was one of those episodes where you just say it's all for fun and go with the spirit of it. I plan to watch it again tonight. I usually like an episode better on the second viewing, and since I liked it so much the first time, well need I say more? Likes: The whole Chaotica segment was especially a hoot! Glad to see Satan's robots are still bumping around the props department in glorious black and white. And Katie was a riot when she finally took Chuck's lead and got into her 'Queen' roll to manipulate the lovesick villain to do her will, LOL. BTW-hey, Jules do you still have that 'Bride of Chaotica' T-shirt? You should wear it when you watch this one. It was fun seeing Seska again, man did she have it really bad for old Chuck or what? I liked that bit where she implied he looked even better with age. We men are like that [cough, cough] I thought that power bun Janeway was starting to get attracted to future Chuck right away. I saw some of that old chemistry again that they had in earlier seasons when we weren't sure what was going to develop between them. As for that "we never crossed that barrier" line, I find it interesting that Katie even asked him that. It showed she must have felt there was a possibility she could have a future with this man, she felt something for him already. And just cause they hadn't crossed that barrier yet, doesn't mean they won't. Oh, I still say it's strange how a captain and first officer have candle light dinners for two in the dark, in the captains quarters! Mark my words, when these two finally get back home and are no longer captain and first officer, they're going to find a nice little hotel somewhere. And when they do "cross that barrier" they'll make an antimatter explosion seem like a kids firecracker. Minor items that still won't rain on my parade and just added to the fun: Gee, Chuck and Katie didn't seem too concerned to find out they're getting fricken KILLED in the not too distant future! I would have at least reacted when future Echeb and Naomi mentioned that little tidbit of information. They just acted like they found out they were going to get a hang nail or something. Yeah, yeah, I guess they figured that was only one possible future for them. But how come that directive about not knowing what happens in the future, so you can't change it, didn't apply to changing their untimely deaths? Maybe I misunderstood something. Chuck cracked me up telling others not to spill the beans on the future to Katie cause of that directive. He was the worst offender of all!!! Even right before and after he told others not to do it he blabbed things. And if Katie knew (as she said near the end) that they were all going to forget what happened when they were returned to their proper times (except Chuck), how come they didn't' discuss more about the future without mention of concern for breaking the directives? Janeway was going to forget it all anyway when the reset button was pushed. Oh would I have loved if Chuck had given Katie a big sloppy kiss at the last minute knowing she would never remember it anyway. It was a perfect opportunity to do it without repercussions. Sort of like SG-1 does with Sam and Jack now and then. I could go on and on. I'll just say we loved last nights episode and had a blast watching it. If only Kes had shown up it would have been even better. I feel for you, Whippersnapper. BTW, Eric, I see you're already eyeing Naomi, you cradle robber, you! Mike (another visitor from the past) I was expecting continuity from the spoilers (Seska, Captain Proton, Janeway of Caretaker), but was impressed with the overall level of continuity. The ones I remember noticing: Janeway's burned pot roast ("Ashes to Ashes"), which seems to have become a standing joke; her dinners with Chakotay; Dante ("Inferno" here, "La Vita Nova" in "Latent Image"); Mark & Molly. Torres' attitude in "Caretaker" (this seems to be the season for her Maquis outfit). Doc's "I'm stuck in sick bay and don't know what's going on" shtick. Crew passed out on deck and Chakotay's not being sure whether it was the pitcher plant ("Bliss") or the sleeping aliens ("Waking Moments") but that they'd be OK. Janeway & Tuvok's friendship. Standing order for "Coffee, Black". The bug from "Macrocosm" (never expected to see that again). I also noticed Janeway saying Voyager's her first command. I expect she meant since being promoted to Captain; I've always assumed her prior command had been at the rank of Commander. Really like how Chakotay danced around about their Borg encounters. Pre-Caretaker Janeway was having a hard enough time learning about some of her future adventures without hearing that she'd led raids on Borg ships and allowed herself to be assimilated. Interesting that even this early on she was willing to break the Prime Directive if it would save her crew's lives. Rather convenient they made adult Naomi an engineer so she could enter the appropriate commands while everyone else was subduing the Kazon. I like the recurring jigsaw puzzle theme -Naomi doing an actual one, Janeway sitting on the floor with the replicator parts strewn about like a puzzle and the ship in pieces of time. Add one more alternative time line death for Tuvok. And Seska's been killed three times, in three different, unpleasant ways; her actual death when something on the bridge exploaded in "Basics II", then the rigged phaser rifle in "Worst Case Scenerio", now by Borg assimilation tubules. Re: Shattered was a blast! Well, Mike, it's obvious that great minds and hopeless romantics do think alike! Mike wrote: Oh would I have loved if Chuck had given Katie a big sloppy kiss at the last minute knowing she would never remember it anyway. It was a perfect opportunity to do it without repercussions. Sort of like SG-1 does with Sam and Jack now and then I was thinking the exact same thing. Right at the end when Chak and Kathryn were saying if this works out no one but Chak will remember anything I was yelling, "Come on, guy, now's your chance, kiss her, kiss her!" Sigh. Mike also wrote: Mark my words, when these two finally get back home and are no longer captain and first officer, they're going to find a nice little hotel somewhere. And when they do "cross that barrier" they'll make an antimatter explosion seem like a kids firecracker. And we better get to see some of that, too!!! Vickie the Voyeur Ooops. To clarify before Ginny sees this.... The part I borrowed from Ginny was the watching your favorite actors read from a phone book. I'm pretty sure, however, that she doesn't count Beltran as one of them. I, on the other hand...well, I'd even pay double for front row seats. Vickie Re: Season 5 ? Opps! Bride of Chaotica was VERY definately referenced... a great season 5 ep! So... no dis to Braga came be inferred in this ep. D47 VERY contented female, who ate breakfast in bed just so she could rewatch it this morning! D47 'Shattered' I liked it. Well what can I say? I enjoyed it. I actually think it tops my 'Imperfection' as my favorite season seven episode, I'll have to watch 'Imperfection' again to be sure. Note: I am posting this before I read other reviews, as always. Anyway... The first scene with the Doctor, well I was about to get pissed at him, because of the way he was acting, (note: I have actually forgotten most of what was in the script that was posted, because I didn't think it was the real thing so I didn't try and commit it to memory) at least until I realized that he was from the past. One nitpick here, though: Since Chakotay was in temporal flux then how was the transporter able to get a lock on him. I didn't think the transporters could get a lock on something in temporal flux. Anyway I was almost sure that I wouldn't enjoy this episode with all the J/C content (I did remember that from the script), but there was so much else here to enjoy. Seska, grown up Naomi and Icheb, and we even got to see some of the Maquis from the old days. So the J/C stuff didn't really bother me, plus it wasn't really romantic J/C stuff. And it answered a J/C question that's as old as 'Resolutions', (big ol happy grin here) they never had sex. I think Chakotay's "there are some barriers we never crossed" answers that. Maybe that's why the J/C content didn't bother me. Favorite moment: When Chakotay tells Kathryn, "that's why we love him" talking about Tom. He said it, HE LOVES TOM! YAY! There was also some nice C/T moments here as well, and some interesting continuity. I guess my only problem with this episode is Tuvok. At the end where past, present, and future crewmembers are saving the day, Tuvok is sadly absent. DAMN! But the Janeway/Tuvok moment as he dies sorta makes up for that. Also, there is something that will shock you: I think I am beginning to like Neelix. Yes you read that right. I actually thought he was okay in this episode as well as being kinda sweet. Microvirus was Season 3, Kes was in the show I distinctly remember her working with the Doc in sickbay. She is looking at the virus through a microscope when it starts to grow and The Doc has to fight it off. Yep, Season 3. Di RE: the pitcher plant Did anyone else wonder how many takes it took RB to say, "This could be the day the telepathic pitcher plant put us all into comas," without cracking up? This is my second favorite line after, "Dey say die Wulcan blud is thin, Spuk." You forgot to mention how yummy she was in that scene!....NIM Only Kes can turn looking into a microscope into a very erotic scene. Now THAT is talent! Eric Always good to see an old name stop by Hallo again from one of those PsiPhi old timers. Jules Re: "Did anyone else wonder...?" Heh, heh, heh... Quince, you are wicked! "Dey sei dye volkin blud es tin, Spuk." Evil. TRULY evil! I love it!
D47 Like Sulu said, "You're absolutely right, Mr Tuvok..." But wrong.... about the virus. The two guys passed out in the hall were season 5, the pitcher plant... although it "could" have been season 4's sleep invaders dream. Sigh. Gosh I loved this ep!
D47 Re: Never crossing barriers! Maybe he just means... not YET! Sigh... wasn't he just so yummy in this ep, Vickie? Like I said years ago... don't "fire his A$$, just fire the writers DOING THIS to his a$$!" Happy thoughts, happy thoughts..... D47 Re: "The Fight", fess up david... You just realized all the GREAT J/C moments in it, the second time around! D47 Re: Suddenly reviving J/Cers... Heck, if Janeway can "see it" after just spending 35 minutes with the guy... D47 Re: 1st command crack... Nina, I agree with MEG... It was "1st command of Voyager". It's been long established that she was Captain elsewhere before VOyager. As for the "other door"... YOWZA! I was jumping up and down that after 7 years they FINALLY used it. Its always been there, just a "dummy" that wasn't used. There was a hue and cry, in fact, last year during "Good shepard" (on another board) because the shot of Janeway's ready room from outside the ship clearly showed the door, and people thought it was an "error". What I thought was great, was that it didn't open directly to the cooridor, but actually was into a waiting/anteroom. Sigh. Happy thoughts, happy thoughts.
D47 Re: Pixie Naomi! Was I the only one who thought TPTB did a wonderful job picking this actress? She either LOOKS like she could be related to Naomi, or she studied Naomi's clips to get her expressions done pat. Sigh... 27 years old and all she can think of is being the Captain's assistant. And, Commander Icheb.... hmmm with Janeway/Chak/Tuvok/ AND Seven dead in that timeline... Can I assume that TOM is Captain????
D47 Re: Replicators... like she told Seven in "Latent Image"... HER replicator has a mind of its own. She doesn't get HOT coffee, just "tepid" no matter how she programs it. Like all things, the thing breaks down sometimes and she has to get her Tom Mix pocket knife out to repair it. (Esoteric M*A*S*H reference) D47 Welcome, "lurker"... isn't it nice the way a great ep... brings out newbies! Hope you stick around! D47 I like your thinking, Deb--and Pixie Naomi! id love to see more of her. NIM Ooooo D.. I LIKE that image... of the recurring jigsaw puzzle! Kind of noticed it with janeway but Didn't ( As for continuoity, the one thing I DID see, and kept expecting Chakotay to make a "crack" about... was the obvious "headache" Janeway was getting whenever he talked of the temporal anomalies. (especially one scene in the turbo lift. "The past is the future, the future is the past... it ALL gives me a headavhe!" D47 Re: Why Mike, you J/Cer you... Re: rules against changing the future... I think it doesn't "count" when you have a temporal matter explosion that is crossing 37 timezones and "screwing" up everyone's lives. I guess, since we ARE affecting so "many" timelines, this ep goes to the "multiple universes converging at a single point theory, like that TNG ep. Elsewise how could "anything" in the future "happen" if Janeway et al are trapped in the Alpha quadrant, near the badlands? D47 Re: the 2nd Time! Sigh.... david, you "piker"... I've done 3 already! I AM a Voyager! D47 Vic wrote: Well, Mike, it's obvious that great minds and hopeless romantics do think alike! Yeah, Vic (and Deb47), and if they don't get those two crazy kids together before the end of the series, all us J/C-ers we'll have to collaborate and write our own ending! And this time poor Chuck won't be working out his frustrations building any fricken bathtubs like in 'Resolutions', he'll be in that tub with Katie Mike Yeah, it was a real hoot, Mrs. Mac... ...I agree, a Kes scene would have been the icing on the cake. They really did that character an injustice with the way she appeared last as disturbed. And, yes, Seska did seem to look older, you would think all that make-up would hide it. Mike OK, Eric -- have at it. Mike (another visitor from the past) He's asking for it. Past century, past millenium.. oh, this is too easy. Ronit OK, Deb, here's a question for you! Why, I wondered and am still wondering, would the first officer hide something from the ship's cook anywhere except in the sanctity of his own quarters? Since Voyager clearly isn't a college dorm (or a rest home!) where you're not supposed to have such stuff? Inquiring minds want to know. The door It looked like her private quarters, not her ready room, to me. Why would she host a dinner in her Ready Room? malcom Re: I have a really tough time with this new website. It has always been really tough to get a complete load on any page and it takes forever. My readed is limited to only a few posts. a fun little trip down memory lane. And nice to see TPTB aren't above poking a little fun at themselves. Was the plot flawless, no way, nothing is. I'm with you, buddy. It was a blast to see the 'bun of steel,' the Maquis, and especially the B/W Chaotica set make a comeback. I wonder if that was still Ayala in the robot body. The 8 Dimensions line was great. Janeway/Mulgrew seems to be at her best when she's having fun. I remember that Janeway was a little more tightly wound in the first couple of seasons and Mulgrew played it that way. That's a compliment. She managed to play Janeway like Season 1 Janeway. And when they do "cross that barrier" they'll make an antimatter explosion seem like a kids firecracker. LOL! Antimatter explosion! So *that's* what it is! Hey, it can be a James Bond-like ending! Chuck cracked me up telling others not to spill the beans on the future to Katie cause of that directive. He was the worst offender of all!!! Yea, I noticed that too. Officers' privilege. Oh would I have loved if Chuck had given Katie a big sloppy kiss at the last minute knowing she would never remember it anyway. You can keep *that* image for the J/Cers, Mike. I feel for you, Whippersnapper. BTW, Eric, I see you're already eyeing Naomi, you cradle robber, you! . Yea, once a YAM always a YAM. Mac. Re: Pixie Naomi! Have they replaced Scarlett Pommers as Naomi? or am I getting the wrong end of the stick? She was a great little actress. Tim Re: Naomi and Icheb In this situation I don't think their reaction to seeing Janeway and Chakotay when they'd been dead for 17 years was inappropriate. They're in Astrometrics and they've seen from the sensor readings that the ship is split into a bunch of time zones, so someone from the past (or future) appearing shouldn't be entirely unexpected. And they are Starfleet Officers, who by now have both probably had experience with time travel. Plus exposure to the "weird is part of the job" stuff since they were kids. Wonder if the crew of 17 years in the future speculates about them (from their ranks Icheb's probably 1st. Officer & Naomi Chief Engineer) the way the current crew does about J/C. Pomers is still a great little actress. And she's still on the show--in the beginnig of the ep. "Pixie Naomi" only had a brief stay on Voyager as a 26-year-old, seventeen years into Voyager's future. How did I suspect that Eric would like her? But sadly, she's now in the ranks of helmgirl and Equi-babe. Sorry, Eric! I liked their choice, too. She really was endearing. Yes, but then West Wing is always good This director certainly hasn't mastered the "walk and talk" that generates such kinetic energy on West Wing. As for Tom and Tuvok being used badly, I have become so used to it that I hardly notice anymore. Well, actually I do notice but have gotten tired of pointing it out. I thought it was interesting that Janeway says Tom has "unsophisticated" tastes in holoprogramming. Apparently not unsophisticated enough to program her boyfriend I thought they spent a little too much time in the Chaotica timeline. It started to bore me fairly quickly. But overall I enjoyed this episode. Shadda Re: SHATTERED (Spoliers) Okay i had intended to read all the posts before I gave my opinion, but there are far too many. I reaally enjoyed this ep. I think it was a far cleverer way to do a clip show than some others I've seen. And I loved the way they interated so many without getting too bogged down. I do however have one or two things I want to inquir about. Why couldn't Chak tell janeway most of what happened? It technically happened to him in the present and like better than 90% of what he saw was past events. How does that effect the temporal prime directive? He just couldn't tell her about the future he saw. This ep was a lot of fun, but I have one thing I am actually really bugged by. Janeways comment to Chakotay at the end, asking how close they came, struck me as odd. That Janeway is still happily engaged. Why would she ask a question like that? It would seem to me that despite what she was being shown or told she would still find it odd to consider herself intimate with someone else. Anyway, those are my only nits, I loved watching this ep and would watch it again if I had thought to tape it. Andrea I thought what put that into her head was hearing that she loaned this man the book that was her engagement gift. Plus all the things her future self had told him, that made it clear they'd become close - very close - but I thought that was what clinched it, and really made Cap'n Kate start wondering things she otherwise wouldn't have wondered. Uhhh, Mike? Re: "if they don't get those two crazy kids together before the end of the series, all us J/C-ers we'll have to collaborate and write our own ending!" Uhh, Mike... been there, done that, and in fact put you, me, Vickie in one of the final scenes JUST cause I "don't" trust TPTB to come through for us "J/C'ers" in the end. Sigh. If a job's worth doing... it's worth doing RIGHT!
Yum! D47 Re: Naomi & Echeb's speculation... Its nice to know that even 17 years after "their deaths"... J/C are still providing good entertainment for their loyal crew! D47 Re: OK, Deb, here's a question for you! Why, Ms Nina... tis a writer's ploy to introduce young master Icheb/Echeb (How DO you spell that name???) and mistress Naomi to the plot!
Seriously, (back onto your other ?) the door question was a significant "nit" picked apart by the nitpickers startrek discussion board. When you watch old scenes, you can see it "standing" perpendicular to the bridge entrance. It never made sense for them to "have" it if they were never going to "use" it, and it actually makes sense to have access to the Captain without going through that security sensitive area AKA "The Bridge". Now.... one wonders if the "older" E/Icheb has "ahem"... "shared" that cider with a young blond lt of his acquaintance????
Methinks Eric will have some serious competition for the lass...
D47 Re: The dinner... was in her private quarters, but the second time Chak walked onto the bridge... Janeway led him (it appeared to me) into her ready room. Of course... (God I love this ep!) D47 Re: Pixie Naomi! The prepubescent has been replaced by a willowy woman in her 20's who has the capability of not only reprograming the engineering computers to blow up in a Kazon's face... BUT she can also turn the head of a YAM in Boston! D47 Re: The older Seska... Makes you appreciate Miss Mulgrew's "aging" (without prosthetics) all the more, eh?
D47 Re: Mulgrew's detachment... (apologist on deck! Mulgrew seemed curiously detached in this episode...i guess that does work to suggest a Janeway still at Utopia Planita docking-port, unable to quite believe the goings-on...but still, i wish my dear Mulgrew had seemed a bit happier. Actually, david... that "detachment" worked extremely well for me. As (Mike?) mentions elsewhere/above, her persona in the first season WAS different... stiffer, more "gung" than "ho"? In this setting, she's confronted by ever changing sets of temporal conditions, and her guide/her (?) Beatrice is the Man she's been sent to "capture" for crimes against the Federation. Her "distraction" was interpreted by me as the onset of one MIGRAINE level temporal mechanics style of a headache... NOT to mention the effects of caffiene withdrawl (thank God for NEELIX! As for Happy? david???? By god, man... TUVOK died in her arms! Have you no compassion for what this woman went through? Sigh. D47 is going back in her "happy place", where officers who "ahem"... "never" cross "certain" barriers, somehow have LOTS of candlelight suppers alone together... drinking beverages untouched by synthahol......
D47 Re: what put that into her head :agree" Nina! The way she challenged him by saying... "That was an engagement gift... I've NEVER loaned it to anyone" was almost... accusatory? For him to "suggest" she could loan it was such blasphemy to her way of thinking... but once that idea was broached... then other unthinkable things could come to mind. Afterall... SEVEN years IS a long time, and it did become obvious that the two WERE quite intimate... all be it in a nonsexual manner, from everything he told her about herself. Sigh. D47 Speaking of that main character who died "in her arms"... I guess we now know... "who" that recent article was referring to, that spoke of the crew "just finishing filming the death of a main character". Whew! D47 Don't forget the Bajoran Hottie! I hope Pixie Naomi shows up later! Eric Icheb and Naomi? Well, just think what lovely foreheads their children would have... Agreed, that actress did a great job with a tiny part, and she just SEEMED like Naomi still. AC Re: Mulgrew's detachment... (apologist on deck! Well, Deb, you and i defending VOY or La Mulgrew to each other is like...two Crusaders comparing battle scars. ! rewatching today, Mulgrew seemed less detached and like she was having fun...i guess two comments she's made, and the lack of Janeway-centers to most eps this season, have made me slightly wary. Mulgrew at one pt. said that this was going to be her "quiet year," which worried me...also, she more recently said the script for "Shattered" "confused" her...taken together, i was worried that she hadnt felt fully comfortable w/this script specifically, and was drawing herself away from the preceedings generally. but there IS a gravity in Mulgrew that i dont quite know what to do w/, at certain points this season...o well, maybe no one else feels this. it doesnt BOTHER me, and i will ALWAYS love Janeway, and always think Mulgrew plays her superbly, and that Janeway is my favorite Captain. david g Chakotay as Virgil, Literature and Trek, and have I mentioned that i love SHATTERED? The most beautiful moment for me in SHATTERED was the one in which Chak quotes from the opening of Dante's Inferno...it ties in beautifully w/previously established Janeway literary tastes. But it's also perfect because in this ep Chak, like Virgil in ante's epic, is Janeway's guide through a "hell" that is actually "the divine comedy" of her upcoming life. Sigh. This is my official favorite Chak ep. Though Trek is rightly attacked for not integrating non-Western literature...o well. i personally love it when they link Trek to classic lit. i LOVE the Dickens stuff in STWOK--"It is a far far better thing I do now"--and the Hamlet stuff in Undiscovered Country...(not to mention great lines like "I'm going to blow you right OUT of the stars!" but i digress)... i also looove the Moby Dick stuff in First Contact. sigh. i love Trek, esp VOY. david g, wondering if others can tell he loves VOY Deeerrrrrr! I forgot you saw the future too! Duh!! It was late! I usually cringe at sickly sweet child actors but Scarlett manages to tread the line between cutesy and annoying and endearing with ease. Tim What have you heard? nim nim Re: Naomi and Icheb In this situation I don't think their reaction to seeing Janeway and Chakotay when they'd been dead for 17 years was inappropriate. They're in Astrometrics and they've seen from the sensor readings that the ship is split into a bunch of time zones, so someone from the past (or future) appearing shouldn't be entirely unexpected. Very good points, D. On the same lines, Janeway and Chakotay shouldn't be overly concerned about being dead in 17 years because that was only one possible future. However, it's a shame that Icheb and Naomi didn't warn Chakotay such as, "When you arrive at Star XYZ don't go in the cave because it will kill you both." One of the minor nits I had was that Chakotay told everyone that they would not remember what happened. However, Chakotay remembered everything. What made his timeline so unique from the others? Logic dictates that he shouldn't remember anymore than anyone else. Mrs. Mac As someone who loathes Wesley, I couldnt agree with you more about Scarlett and Manu's wonderful... acting...they are deligtful presences. Whatever TNg did, VOY can do better! david g LOL AC! "what lovely foreheads" indeed! Gives new meaning for what B'Elanna is considering next week! D47 Re: 2 crusaders comparing battle scars. or 2 support group members keeping each other on the "true" path? Hi, my name is D47, and I am a Voyageraholic...
D47 Pixie, I try to maintain a low spoiler diet. I had in mind some of Biller's comments about pushing Janeway to the edge, the ship looking like it did in YOH, etc. This was months ago, now. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I had anything new to share. Ronit You're right david! I must also mention that while I would join Vickie in the front row watching Chakotay read a telephone book (hey, I'm married, not dead) he does have a tendancy to irritate me with his heavy breathing. He didn't do it much this episode, or if he did, the rest of him was so compelling that I didn't notice it. Roxanne Beltran isn't one of them, true enough, but I agree with you in saying that "Nemesis" is judged too harshly. "Nemesis" has an intriguing storyline and a good performance (especially that last look) from Beltran, but it suffers from having guest actors who didn't have the experience to pull off the odd vernacular used by the young soldiers. Which is a shame, because odd vernacular was used to great effect in "Darmok". Of course, Paul Winfield and the other guest actors had the talent and acting craft to make it work. Ginny Although I sneakily enjoy, Ginny, NEMESIS as the most homoerotic ep of VOY ive ever seen..o wait, the 2nd most, after The Chute. david g What about "Warlord", david? (ANIM) Homoerotic-wise, that is? ANIM=Almost No Internal Message Hmmm, an alternative i HADNT considered, Terry! NIM Harry, Ensign after all these years, meets Lt. Naomi Wildman! Ok, am i the only one who was rolling on the floor when Shatered gave us that long lingering look at those TWO shiny pips on Naomi's collar? I mean poor Harry was onboard right from the beginning and never rose above Ensign, but little Naomi grows up (and goes Pixie! Janeway is going to drive Harry to mutiney!! Mark my words, he is going to go postal! Eric Re: Harry, Ensign after all these years, meets Lt. Naomi Wildman! Heck, Eric... I think he'd be even MORE distressed to discover Echeb was a COMMANDER! At least it was "prequel" Harry, and not season 7 Harry that saw those pips! D47 | ||
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(it was GOOD!)
Wasn't "The West Wing" good last night?
) with the ship!
