Juggernaut

Hey Ted, Voyager will be on tomorrow for us...
Eric -- 26 Apr 1999, 7:55 PM

Thanks to the %%%%$$###@@@ingBruins we have to wait until Tuesday to see Juggernaut.

I'm not bitter tho.

No, not me.

Eric

Juggernaut was an irresistible force of destruction
Terry -- 26 Apr 1999, 9:24 PM

to its three writers: Bryan Fuller, Nick Sagan, and Ken Biller. Its wheels rolled over them and crushed their careers.

I was very intrigued by many ideas that the writers had here concerning B'Elanna.

• Dealing with her anger and delving into her childhood traumas
• Being mentored by Tuvok (a concept set out in the original Voyager bible)
• Connecting her bad attitude with her relationship with Tom
• Her relationship with Chakotay and with Neelix
• Learning that the Malon captain was not a pure villain

But the script failed to satisfactorily deal with any of them. None of these ideas was followed through.

It felt very incomplete and inexpertly written. The episode has visually exciting. That dark, foggy, dirty atmosphere made for some great pictures. But I felt very little real suspense. And the ending was laughable.

Not the final scene in B'Elanna's quarters but her confrontation with the core-worker. It just made to sense for her to try to persuade a madman who had just killed dozens of his crewmates and was trying to kill himself and them. She made no attempt to stop him from changing course. She had a weapon and he even turned his back.

BTW, I am confused about how TPTB used the Malon this season. While they were somewhat complex and believable here and in Night, they were nothing but sneering hostile villains in Extreme Risk. At least, B'Elanna's attitude toward them was consistent throughout.

Don't get me wrong. I loved seeing B'Elanna in so many different ways. Casual dress with a skirt. T-shirt. Nekkid Naked in the sonic shower again. (Take that, another nude scene. B'Elanna 2, Seven 0)

Dawson said at a con that this ep might be confusing because of last minute re-writes. IMO, it was confusing at all. It just wasn't very compelling. I thought Roxann Dawson did okay with weak material. But the whole story wasn't exciting or suspenseful or a good character study.

About the writing contributions
Jason -- 26 Apr 1999, 9:35 PM

Terry,
I have a bit more info about who was dismissed from Voyager's staff and why. JUGGERNAUT had nothing to do with the fates of the writers. In fact, it came down to money.

To make room for Echevarria and Moore to come over, Berman had to free up some money to accommodate the salaries they are used to at DS9. Biller, as a high-ranking producer, earns a lot and had to be squeezed out because there was no way to afford all three.

Sagan also makes a lot of money.

Fuller is a question mark, his status is still unknown and will remain so for a few weeks.

Taylor is staying not because he has wowed everyone but because he, having the least experience in the industry, was hired by Paramount at next to nothing and so it costs nothing to keep him-- especially given how prolific he's been.

About the writers of this episode. I have it on fairly good authority that the actual contributions of Sagan and Fuller were lost in the revisions, they were assigned to develop certain characters who were virtually written out in further drafts. Biller wasn't credited in the press release. (Was his name on screen?) The blame for this episode, if indeed there is blame, I guess has to be assigned to the nameless writer who revised this episode.

I knew that this episode was very difficult for the staff because they couldn't find the angle for this episode late in to it... maybe that has something to do with it's apparent failure...?

Jason, writing credits read:
Terry -- 26 Apr 1999, 10:39 PM

Teleplay by

Bryan Fuller &
Nick Sagan
and
Kenneth Biller

Story by

Bryan Fuller

Which IIRC, means Fuller and Sagan worked on the early drafts together and then Biller rewrote on his own. As we have heard about Voyager, if anyone had any uncredited rewrites, it had to have been Braga himself.

The script seemed to be trying to do too many things. Now that I think about it, it even tried to address B'Elanna's and Janeway's relationship. Too much started and none finished.

Juggernaut: The Ship Of The Living Dead
Diane -- 26 Apr 1999, 9:50 PM

For some reason, I kept thinking of that 1950's SciFi horror flick, but I don't think Tom Paris would have cared for this one.

Something was missing. After reading Terry and Jason's explanation of a writer mess up, this all makes sense. This could have been a good episode. Acting was good, just the story wasn't pieced together well.

Likes: Dawson looked awesome, she looks like she has been seriously working out. TPTB must be reading us again or Jason is passing along the info, the Tom and B'Elanna scene was just what the Neb ordered: concern and affection when one of them goes on a dangerous away mission. Neelix's new outfit, he looks much better in solids rather than those ridiculous suits.

Big disappointments: Besides the production, Ron Canada who played the Malon. He is a favorite of mine, being on several TNG and DS9 episodes. He is a first rate Theatre actor. He appeared at my Shakespeare theatre last year opposite Patrick Stewart. Canada played a great Iago. In this show he was not challenged and it showed. I also did not like the idea of turning the Malon's into somewhat "nice" guys. Keep them baddies. BTW, I thought Voyager was through Malon territory. How did they get 10 or 15 years out of their own space?

Well, to close I thought this would have been a great B'Elanna episode, even a scary show, but the production fell flat. Unfortunately, this is not a keeper. I really feel TPTB have given Dawson the "short end of the stick" this season.

Di

Ron Canada and Daniel Bird
Terry -- 26 Apr 1999, 10:43 PM

Diane, is Ron Canada the same guy that played the advisor in that genetically controlled colony in TNG and the Klingon who prosecuted Worf in DS9?

I forgot to mention Daniel Bird. B'Elanna described him as a childhood tormentor. But wasn't Harry Kim's friend from Non Sequitur also named Danny Bird? The one who got the Ops job on Voyager instead of Harry?

BTW, Flite and Macs, chalk up one more kiss between Paris and Torres for the pool.

Daniel Bird *was* Harry's friend and classmate
Carol -- 26 Apr 1999, 11:01 PM

When I heard the name, I thought it sounded familiar, and thought at first that the name was taken from Pathway's, but I happened to have the book next to me and was glancing through B'Elanna's chapter for him before I remembered he was Harry's friend in Non Sequestor.

I said before that I thought Nick Segan was doing a C+ job as story editor and this is another thing that shows he doing just a average job in that department (Lisa Klink at least could keep the crew complement and little things like this straight -- excusing the Ensign Kaplin mistake in Vis a Vis.

Anyway, everyone has pretty much said everything I thought of this episode. It was the second one this season (along with The Fight) where I found myself doing other things while it was on. Good performance by Roxann, but that was about it.

I think I can understand the reports of Roxann's frustration this year. She (along with Robert Beltran) have both been conspicuously edged out this season.

Carol

RE: Juggernaut: The Ship Of The Living Dead
PegN -- 27 Apr 1999, 11:51 AM

I missed the first 20 minutes (because I didn't want to interrupt the ending of "Snake Eyes" with Nicholas Cage and my favorite, Gary Sinese)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but there were a couple of interesting B'Elanna moments. And dagnabit, I missed the Tom/B'Elanna scene.

B'Elanna meditating. Interesting. Why does her pride prevent her from letting Tuvok know she does it?

I noticed Dawson's arms too. She's petite but has nice definition. (And P.S., why 2 shows with B'Elanna showering? It's one of the guys' turn. Tommy or Tuvok would be nice. Russ has a really nice upper body.)

B'Elanna and the alien where she killed or disabled him. He could have taken her out, so why did he turn his back (I guess he really was crazed). But I did like the ending where she relived it while in the shower. I wonder what affect this will have on her. Yes, he was crazy, and no she didn't want to do it, but she had to.....had to kill an unarmed being.

Sucky episode, but some good B'Elanna characterization.

PegSiskel

It's Monday, it's late...
D'Alaire -- 26 Apr 1999, 10:46 PM

...but it was a B'Elanna ep. : )

But I do find myself agreeing with your dissatisfaction, Terry.

I have to go to sleep soon, but I'll have to say, though I know I enjoyed this ep a lot as I watched it, I totally agree the topics were all over the place, the story, desperately trying to blend into a cogent whole, didn't make it, or seemed way too easily fused...

Yep, the toxic man scene--that whole sub plot was totally unnecessary. They could have stuck with B'Elanna dealing with Malon Whatshisface--and striking more nerves there, connecting him somehow to that mean kid she'd beaten the snot out of and working a resolution into that....Ah well. That sub plot just pissed me off. And I never did like the Malon (though, oddly, I liked, too, learning more about them as people this time around), so that wasn't a help.

B'Elanna--poor B'Elanna, I do feel for her. It's been her year of pain--and though I'm thrilled they've gotten back to her (finally!), they're even more spotty in their follow up. Those intriguing aspects Terry mentioned that the writers brought up were indeed just that--I was glued to every detail and loving every second of it. It was great B'Elanna workings all around.

Then I was left waiting for a good resolution, my waiting beginning as soon as they stepped on board the freighter. And toxic dude certainly didn't do it for me one bit.

I don't expect all the problems to be solved, of course, but they keep bringing things up without good conclusion. How long had it been since she cursed Janeway in NH? Anyway, the holes really showed here, and that's too bad. Tighter, clearer, this would have been a fantastic episode.

But like Terry said, the poor patchwork here left little suspense in a visually cool atmosphere, and there wasn't nearly enough concentration on their "thesis," to hold together the usual intense drama that B'Elanna's anger and pain normally inspires. And it was sloppily wrapped up.

Except for that last scene--B'Elanna looking silently in a mirror has been extremely interesting every time (I will not gush, I will not gush, I will not gush about RD's incredible expressiveness...).

And Terry, Mac--I'm toasting you big time! B-2, S-0. Doo dah! You go, guys!

RD did her very best, I thought, with what she had, and--did Diane say it?--she was in phenomenal shape. She looked great, even covered with sludge.

But I liked especially seeing how different people--Tuvok (mentoring--as he should),Janeway (offering, proving her trust and faith in B'Elanna's abilities), Chakotay (disciplining rightfully, practically), Tom (cajoling, concerned, yet accepting and caring), Neelix (supporting, bringing the tension down if but a little)--dealt with her. It was very interesting to see that aspect of her life, a more daily view of her life as it was and the full circle of support they created, and how she handled all of that, too. That was great stuff. I wish we could see more of it.

Yet it also would have been interesting to see, more clearly at least, how all of that reflected later, on that mission--and to see it packaged more cleanly, and resolved more effectively.

...Oh, and I almost forgot to ask-- Who else gagged at Wednesday's promo? Ack! Hairball! It was almost as bad as "Who's the Father?"!!!

Okay, now I can go to sleep. ; )

No idea what your talking about D'Alaire! Best friggin promo ever!
Eric -- 27 Apr 1999, 11:03 AM

D'Alaire said :

"Oh, and I almost forgot to ask-- Who else gagged at Wednesday's promo? Ack! Hairball! It was almost as bad as "Who's the Father?"!!!"

Actually, I STRONGLY disagree. Watching Seven do her little hair flip was hypnotic. I found myself backing up the tape and going forward and backing up and going forward and backing up and....

Well, my poor tape was very happy when Terry cut out that scene and made a movie out of it!

Now where did I put that Terry post?

Back it up again Terry!

Eric

RE: Juggernaut was an irresistible force of destruction
Mindy -- 27 Apr 1999, 1:42 PM

Terry,

Didn't like JUGGERNAUT because of the many issues that were brought up (as you pointed out) ALL OF A SUDDEN, and of course could not be dealt with in one episode...and B'Elanna was suddenly such a B***CH!!!...after a few seasons of calming her down it JUST DIDN'T WORK!

Okay, okay, sorry about the yelling...calm down, Min'....

It's not that these issues weren't good...in fact, they were excellent...but you can't just pick them up out of thin air and expect to deal with them in an hour show...less than an hour, with all the commercials, of course....

And I don't agree with you that all of a sudden she plays Tuvok/Janeway/Neelix/Chakotay... i.e., the diplomat...and tries to talk sense into the "Hiroshima" victim.. to me. with three minutes to go and the way she had been acting the whole episode, it would have been entirely correct for her to snarl, "Get out of my way", kill the dork...and then deal with the aftermath in the sonic shower or whatever...

There were parts of it I liked very much...Chakotay getting boinked on the head as he tried to escape...okay, okay, sorry Chako-holics...no, seriously, I loved the moody atmosphere, the reality of the Malons...hey, I gotta say, I agreed with the Malon who said that the core workers knew what they were getting into and traded the money for health and death...feeling that at least their families would get the money (I'm not talking ethics here or morality, I'm talking reality as in hard choices as in sometimes in life we have to make hard choices)....I liked Neelix (but then, 9 times out of ten, I always like Neelix)

Gotta go. More later.

Mindy

Looking at yourself, in someone else's madness....
Leonie -- 26 Apr 1999, 9:39 PM

I loved it,

Good solid B'Elanna episode.

Don't have much time, so I'll give the engineer's point form of my likes and dislikes.

(1) I can't believe that I'm putting this first, but I loved the Fx, the attention to detail was as good as that in "Timeless"

(2)Chakotay ordering B'Elanna to subject herself to meditation lessons from Tuvok, I think that's a little hard to swallow. It seems that it should be B'Elanna's own personal business, but then again it was getting in the way of her performing her duties, so maybe it was part of his job

(3) Chakotay with some balls, refreshing to see, and one of Beltran's better performances.

(4) Loved what the story attempted to do. We got to feel a little for the Malon, a little by what they are willing to sacrifice for the upkeep of their world. A little when we find out that they have children, a life, a society that is more civilized than what we have seen of them so far. But not so much because they refuse to stop and find alternative ways to deal with their waste even in the face of all death and destruction that they cause.

(5) And B'Elanna realizing what her anger could cause, what can happen to her if she really doesn't give some effort into curbing her temper. She knew that when she looked at the Malon, she was seeing what she could become if enough rage and bitterness, built up in her. She knew that she could destroy the innocent along with the guilty, and the point was driven home when she had to use her anger to destroy in order to save her life and Neelix's life. Knowing that she was using her anger for good did not make it any easier. The fact of the matter is that she had acted just as the Malon did.

(6) Loved the fact that it was actually one of the Malon workers that was actually the monster. Loved the irony of the path that is supposed to make it possible for the Malon to live as civilized beings was actually transforming its people into beasts.

There wasn't much I disliked. I did think at the end though, that we have been seeing too much of B'Elanna with little or no clothes on. But I must say, Dawson's acting was superb in the last scene.

Leonie
Eyes Barely Open
Glasses ON

Seeing TOO MUCH of B'Elanna?
Jason -- 26 Apr 1999, 9:43 PM

Heck, I don't think she's the "babe of the show" but even I can admit that there can never be TOO MUCH B'Elanna.

Now my interest is really getting piqued. How much DID SHE show? Terry, I need a vidcap STAT! :-D

Jason
(I feel like I've been possessed by Eric!)

Yeah! We didn't see ENOUGH B'Elanna! (GI)
Terry -- 26 Apr 1999, 11:45 PM

Well, now that Laura Michelle has arrived, my vidcap job is in jeopardy but no one knows how to show photos of a beautiful woman like a man. Well, except maybe .. Never mind!

Anyway, my vidcap software is back to crashing my PC again and again. Thank you, Bill Gates, for not burdening us with a robust OS.

Terry

Arrrghhh! What is Jeri Ryan's problem???
Eric -- 27 Apr 1999, 11:14 AM

I love my Borg Babe but come on!! ***2*** years and no skin?

I NEVER thought I would see B'Elanna strip down before Seven!

Where is the rest of this picture Terry? Don't hold out on us!!!

Come on Seven! Even !!KES!! showed more skin in that swimsuit then Seven does!! Come on UPN, you have a chance with Relativity when Seven changes into a Starfleet uniform!! She can take a nice long shower to!!

Eric

Considering her uniform fits like a second skin, Eric...
SuzyQ -- 27 Apr 1999, 11:41 AM

...I'm surprised you still need to see bare flesh. Her catsuit leaves *nothing* to the imagination. It hugs every single curve and indentation. Meanwhile, Roxann was wearing a tent most of last season, and the regulation uniform that Voyager's crew wears is much looser than anything on DS9.

(For instance, Julian's uniform fits much more snugly than Tom's. What? You thought I didn't notice that?)

Boy, give you guys a half-inch of hair, and you want a mile of skin! ;-)

My rant is...WHY DON'T ANY OF THE MEN OF VOYAGER NUDE UP! WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE WOMEN WE SEE IN BATHING SUITS OR THE SHOWERS? C'mon Braga, equal time for the men! You don't even put them in V-necks, for *bleepin* sake!

SuzyQ

Hey Suzy, your being picky! Neelix had a bathtub scene!!...NIM
Eric -- 27 Apr 1999, 6:27 PM

And that nasty troll was nude!

Brrrrrrrrrrrr

Nude B'Elanna??? Oh JOY!!! I can't wait!...NIM
Eric -- 26 Apr 1999, 10:06 PM

Stupid fragging UPN 38!!!

A POX on your house!

Eric

Perhaps being starved for a BT ep colors my perception..
Deborah47 -- 27 Apr 1999, 12:30 AM

but I MUST agree with Leonie on this one. I really liked the show.

I realize this is episodic television, and often everything is wrapped up during one episode, but I like it when Voyager builds on themes started in previous eps.

This is exactly what I felt the (multiple) writers were attempting tonight. Just look at our posts on B'Elanna's character a few weeks ago. WHAT were we complaining about in terms of this woman? That there was no more FIRE in her Klingon blood? That there was no acknowledgment of her (ONGOING) mental disturbance and need for further diagnosis &counseling? That there was no interaction between B'Elanna and her GREAT friend Chak? Thatwe NEVER see quiet moments of affection with Tom & B'Elanna? That we never see Janeway's CONCERN over her engineer and her problems?

Yes Terry, it did try to do many things, but in this case I think it was warranted. B'Elanna has had so many fascinating stories started and not finished that it was time for someone to step up to the plate and start filling in the blanks.

I also liked this story because it showed how diverse her associations are on this crew. It hit every main character except Seven. (I would have "solved" that oversight by allowing Seven to exhibit a Tiny bit of anxiety as she gave the position of the "radiation monster" as it stalked B'Elanna.)

I liked it because of the Humor that was injected: the scene with Tuvok and learning to control her emotions! We've all heard Tuvok's line before, with "serious student" Kes, though I suspect my own reaction to his instructions would have been more akin to B'Elanna's! Laugh though she did, she did start to learn. How to control her emotions, how to start using diplomacy, and in the end when it's more important to speak softly and carry a BIG stick!

I liked seeing Chak in command again. Thank you PTB, for giving my guy Something to DO!

Finally, I liked the end. There WAS so much going on in this episode, that B'Elanna really has a LOT to think over. In an era where UPN is shaving this and that, we get contemplative B'Elanna going over the day's events. She had been able to incorporate Tuvok's meditating to control her anger, she saved those other ships in the area by defeating the monster, she received Chakotay's praise and Neelix's thanks, and perhaps most important of all, by NOT displacing her with Tuvok she was blessed with Janeway's seal of approval!

I liked it. Faults, yes, but not enough for me to harp on tonight. (Can't wait till I see it again on Saturday!) D47

Much of the story seemed repetitive or muddled to me.
Terry -- 27 Apr 1999, 5:27 AM

She says, "You CAN'T ORDER someone to ________." She argues with Chakotay, bad-mouths Janeway, and get dressed down. She gets angry at a Malon. She strip down to a tank top. She confesses her feelings to Neelix. She gets stalks by a alien psycho in a dark alien ship. She contemplates her image in the mirror in a revealing emotional moment. She strips and takes a sonic shower.

The title of Juggernaut even evokes memories of Dreadnought. B'Elanna leading an effort to stop a dangerous ship from killing people.

Even the Malon as foolish and selfish polluters is a rehash. Admittedly better done than before but also inconsistent with past episodes. Once again, Trek demonizes a race and then tries to show that they're "human" after all. How are we supposed to reconcile the Malon of this episode with the cardboard villains of Extreme Risk? Shades of last season's Hirogen.

What exactly was the point? In what way did B'Elanna's temper endanger the mission and how did her control of her temper save it? She "meditated" for a minute and voila? I couldn't see how her behavior changed so much after that.

I hope that they're not trying to compare B'Elanna's bad attitude with the core-monster's anger. Yeah, right. Smashing a camera is just one step away from killing your entire crew.

I did enjoy some of the character scenes. We have rarely seen her interact with Tuvok one-on-one since early in season two (Resistance). But once again, we hear about how her temper stems from bigotry faced as a child. But she acts surprised to realize this? Puh-leez.

If character conflicts are brought up only once or twice a season, some movement toward resolution or further conflict should be seen when they do appear.

B'Elanna showed sharp resentment and even contempt for Janeway in her discussion with Chakotay. This would stem from her resentment of the events in Nothing Human. Fine. But Chakotay didn't call her on it and we never saw it again. It probably won't be addressed for another 20 episodes.

Same with B'Elanna's temper. The writers write her trying to deal with that once a season, it seems. But in between, she is shown acting cool and collected in several volatile situations. It doesn't seem consistent.

I enjoyed many individual scenes and adored how Roxann Dawson looked. But this episode was composed of odd-and-ends of scenes and character bit without a clear focus. Not a bad episode, no. But it suffered from a lack of any real suspense or interesting plot.

I loved the first half and was disappointed by the second. "A+" for looks, "A-" for effort, "C" for results. Lesson: Too many cooks spoil the broth. Juggernaut had many tasty spices but was a poor dish.

Terry "Insomnia" Miles

The title may have evoked "Dreadnought", Terry. . .
MEG -- 27 Apr 1999, 8:37 AM

. . .but the plot seemed to be more of a knock-off of "The Devil in the Dark": chasing unseen monster through darkened and dangerous corridors, finding that the monster isn't what you thought it was, achieving understanding of the monster. The way I figure it, they practically had to kill the monster in this one just to avoid a charge of plagiarism.

The effect of the freighter exploding in the star's corona was very pretty, though. ;-)

MEG

ST Voyager meets MTV
VickieT. -- 27 Apr 1999, 12:03 PM

I think many of the comments people have made illustrate something that has been relatively common this season on Voyager. In "Juggernaut," we had lots of good, even great individual scenes - most of which had already been mentioned, so I won't list them again. However, these good scenes did not hang together to make a cohesive, connected story. It's almost like Voyager has been turned over to producers and directors who got their starts in music video, where they have 2-4 minutes to convey a feeling, hint at a theme, or illustrate a little snip of life.

Like Carol, I found myself doing other things while watching this episode - at one point, I realized that I had picked up a catalog and was leafing through it, one eye on the TV and one on the catalog.

I also have one really BIG complaint about this episode. It is so hot on the Malon freighter that B'Elanna immediately strips down to her tank top while Chakotay keeps his jacket *and* turtleneck on!??!! I don't think so! This is blatant sexism. I am offended. I am disgusted. Most of all, I am angry. I want Chakotay. I want him dirty, sweaty and in a tight t-shirt. And I want him now. Do you hear me, PTB? (pounding on desk for emphasis) It's just not fair!

I have to agree, mostly, with Terry's score of this episode: A for effort, A for concept, A+ for some outstanding scenes, but only a C for actual execution. Having said that, though, I did enjoy this episode for the most part and will watch it again (I taped it) when I have a chance.

Vickie

SuzyQ, Vickie T., You Go Girls!!!
PegN -- 27 Apr 1999, 12:42 PM

Vickie T:
Most of all, I am angry. I want Chakotay. I want him dirty, sweaty and in a tight t-shirt. And I want him now. Do you hear me, PTB? (pounding on desk for emphasis) It's just not fair!

And SuzyQ wants to know when the men are going to "nude up".

Yeah, lusty inquiring female minds want to know!

(Unfortunately, the women on the show are in better "shower shape" than most of the men and we won't even discuss Neelix's body, his feet are bad enough!--ugh, and I just ate lunch--why did I do that to myself?)

Peg(I'm gonna be sick)N

Peg, if RDM is fit enough to wear...
SuzyQ -- 27 Apr 1999, 1:59 PM

...those tight T-shirts in 30 DAYS and GRAVITY, he's in good enough shape to be seen rising out of a swimming pool or exiting his shower in nothing but a towel. Got a nice picture, now? ;-)

Oh, and Eric asked a few days ago which directors we'd like to see guest direct on VOY. Right now, I'm saying Chris Carter from THE X-FILES for the following reasons:

1. He knows how to right for strong, sensitive redheads who question their spirituality.

2. He *never* does that typical sexist crap and puts Scully in a silk nightie while Mulder is covered from neck to ankle in polyester.

3. He *does* get away with the reverse - showing the men in various stages of undress (and varying wetness) while Scully practices her tae kwon do on opponents of both sexes. All the while pulling in the YAM numbers UPN so covets.

Just saw THE FIGHT this weekend, so maybe that's why I'm so disgusted. I'm not a Chuckie groupie, but it was SO ridiculous to see him boxing in a t-shirt *and* a tank top. Together! At the same time! I'm really starting to the think VOY's Costume Department is paid by the number of pieces the men keep on, and the number of outfits the women take *off.*

SuzyQ

Male Disrobing: The Lost Opportunities
Ruth -- 27 Apr 1999, 3:04 PM

It wasn't just "The Fight," or "Juggernaut," SuzyQ, Vickie, and PegN. Season Five has been full of lost opportunities for us to ogle a little male skin. Here are just a few:

Top Ten Places We Could Have Seen Some Male Skin This Season

Oh, and, uh, Ginny, say hi to everyone at that revival tonight for me. :-)

Now THAT'S a Top Ten List!NIM
PegN -- 27 Apr 1999, 3:11 PM

No really, that sentence says it all.

Wooo Hooo! Ruth, you are on a roll! ROTFLOL!(NIM)
SuzyQ -- 27 Apr 1999, 3:24 PM

*

Lord have mercy.
Ginny -- 27 Apr 1999, 4:07 PM

I'm away from the site for a few hours to get my NT upgrade, and this happens.

If I don't get several of those images out of my head, Ruth Ann, I may have to stay home from revival tonight. I mean, suppose the music leader were to suggest "Showers of Blessings" for the call to worship? I'd be O.K. until the chorus**, and then it would all be over but the shouting.

T'Gin

**For the heathen among you, here's the chorus:
Showers, showers of blessings,
Showers of blessings we need.
Mercy drops 'round us are falling,
But for the showers we plead.

See what I mean?

TPTB have been trying to be fair, Ruth.
Terry -- 27 Apr 1999, 6:20 PM

They actually cut these scenes.

LOL, Ruth
VickieT. -- 27 Apr 1999, 7:05 PM

As usual, you have come up with an outstanding top 10 list.

Vickie

Good grief
Jules -- 27 Apr 1999, 7:26 PM

What a happy set of thoughts to see just before I head off to bed. Terry may be dreaming of B'Elanna's sonic shower hat trick, but I confess that I like this list much better!

It certainly looks like you've got over your top ten writer's block, Ruth. Hooray!

(And if the sponge baths didn't work out in "Gravity", there's always the sand scrub.) :-)

Jules

SuzyQ, I'm thinkin' One Million Years B.C.
PegN -- 27 Apr 1999, 3:04 PM

You know the one where Raquel made such an impression?

Oh yeah, Robbie, rising from water, gettin' out of the shower....either way, undressed and wet!

Yeah, Chuck in boxing shorts, tee shirt and tank top. That was pathetic, wasn't it?

Wouldn't this be a good time to help offer to help the Malon?
Ann M. -- 27 Apr 1999, 2:33 PM

I have to say I didn't "watch" the episode carefully. I was working while it was on. I'll have to find time to just sit and watch the episode.

Interesting thought since the Malons can see how terrible there garbage freighters are and that they've created "monsters", wouldn't they be more receptive to help to learn how to handle their waste?

It is amazing how they first make us think the aliens are evil and then try to have them become sympathetic characters. I enjoyed them as enemies who just were uncaring aliens. Not realistic but simple.

It was nice to see Neelix doing something outside of the kitchen. And to see that the plans B and C were not Seven's but the Captain's idea and it wasn't Seven who saved the day. Sorry Seven lovers. I did like Seven taking in account the "luck" factor in her calculations.

I thought that B'Elanna too easily found the way to meditate. I don't think one session with Tuvok would have given her enough to be able to just stop and do it. I thought her giggling during Tuvok's training session very realistic. I could see myself getting the giggles when someone else was trying to be oh so serious.

I agree that it seemed to be going in many directions and as always they tried to tie them up at the end. Carry over isn't bad and it keeps the fans coming back for more.

Well, back to work.

Ann M.