The Disease

Well, The Disease was better than I expected
Carol -- 24 Feb 1999, 7:50 PM

I didn't go into this episode with a lot of great expectations. And while it was somewhat predictable and not on the level of some of the best episodes this season (like Harry's last episode, Timeless), it had a lot of strong moments.

Cheers

I have to admit, I was all ready to slam this episode on the whole ABOTW Wham-Bamb Romance. But by the time Harry and Janeway had their confrontation in her ready room, I really did believe that Harry was in love with Tal. Michael Taylor can sometimes get a little flowery with his dialogue, but I actually felt for Harry when he was describing to Janeway what he was feeling and at the end as he sat alone in the Mess Hall looking on his computer at the binary stars that Tal had gone to see. Harry and Tal weren't oozing chemistry (frankly, up until the scene between them in the shuttlecraft, she kind-of annoyed me), but they did have some nice moments together. I believed in their relationship by the end, and that's what was important.

My eyebrows lifted towards the ceiling during the repeat dinner scene between J/C from Timeless. (Kate's hair was looking extremely red in this scene BTW, more red than I've ever seen it). I can see how Janeway's treated Harry differently than the other crewmembers. She wasn't even overprotective of Seven like she was of Harry when she came aboard. She took Harry's insubordination personally and I was glad to see her admit that later.

Kate looked like a cat ready to pounce on a mouse when she ordered Harry into her ready room. :-)

I find it amusing that TPTB finally admitted the dangers that could be involved with having intimate relations with an unknown-Alien and that Starfleet actually has a handbook (3 cm thick) on the subject. :-)

The direction in this episode was stunning, from the first shots of the generational ship and the camera turning and spinning until it came into the room Harry and Tal entered into. (And did the first shot of that ship in the teaser remind anyone else of the opening shot of the movie Spaceballs? :-D

The title makes more sence now -- the Disease wasn't Harry's glowing, it was being in love. Its a theme that's been explored many times in other genres, but it was well handled. And I'm glad that it didn't end on a depressing note that love is always so painful.

Jeers

Actually, there wasn't much I didn't like. Garrett Wang's performance was --eh. He wasn't horrible, he just seemed to sometimes either be too flat in some scenes and then over act and over emote in some others.

As I said above, Tal's character rather annoyed me up until the scene between her and Harry in the shuttlecraft when she said he should just open the channel to the Delta Flyer before they just opened fire. That's when finally developed more of a personality for me. Pity it came in the second to last act. Also, I knew that she had developed the parasites that were eating the ships hull when the parasites were first discovered. That was rather predictable.

Anyway, all in all, I liked it more than I thought I would. It wasn't just some silly, titillating ABOTW fling like I thought it would be and I liked that. So far, Michael Taylor is on a solid writing streak his first year on the Voyager writing staff. I'm starting to look forward to each of his episodes.

Carol, do you think that 3cm thick book...
Deborah47 -- 25 Feb 1999, 6:06 AM

...was written 100 years ago by Star Fleet after a certain Captain (who shall remain nameless - initial JTK) slept his way across the quadrant? Perhaps it was started when Admiral (Dr) McCoy became surgeon general of the fleet after the 6th Movie. (Remember Bones' attitude after Kirk got into yet another liplock with an ABOTW, "WHAT IS IT with you ANYWAY?"). D47

LOL, D47! I couldn't help but think about Kirk and McCoy
Ruth -- 25 Feb 1999, 6:45 AM

when they were discussing the regulations as well. No wonder McCoy was always so grumpy! He never got any sleep, since he was always having give Kirk check-ups before and after the dashing captain "initiated alien contact." LOL!

I thought of the same things Ruth and Deb.
Carol -- 25 Feb 1999, 10:30 PM

That regulation has James T. written all over it. :-)

And I wouldn't put it past McCoy being the one who implamented it. Remember in ST VI when Kirk got that kiss from ABOTW Iman and McCoy couldn't help but say "What IS IT with you anyway??" :-D

"The Disease" is what the Doctor ordered
Jason -- 24 Feb 1999, 8:56 PM

"The Disease" a nice show. ..

In fact, contrary to being a "disease" it was exactly what the Doctor ordered for me when it comes to Voyager. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but after a string of episodes back to back, --and especially after a "Voyager Event" which has been hyped to high heaven to the extent "Dark Frontier" was-- I tend to get a little tired of Voyager. A break altogether probably would have been nice, but with a nice, quiet(er) story like this can also do the trick-- and did, in this case.

The special effects in this episode were quite stunning, Voyager in 1999 has ceasely managed to show strange and different worlds or alien races in Star Trek with distinctively different looks. In this case, as Brannon Braga put it talking about his aims for season five, we saw the nitty gritty realisms of real life space travel. For that reason, like the "space race" in "Extreme Risk", the Mir-type ship, (complete with hull ruptures! If this keeps going, UPN will have to promote episodes by saying "Ripped Fromt he Headlines! just like NBC.) was completely fascinationg just as a concept put in to execution.

This year, we've had "Gravity", "Bride of Chaotica", "Bliss"-- to an extent, and "Dark Frontier", now this. The production staff is doing a good job at realizing strange new alien worlds.

Another brief aside-- Tal was a TOS worthy babe! Maybe I just like accents. And Mike-- Janeway looked particularly good at the beginning of the show! I think like it when she tucks her hair behind her ears!

Oh, okay-- on to the plot:

This episode was an interesting reiteration of something I'd long forgotten-- Janeway's mentorship of Kim. The last scenes they had together reminded me of the fact that Kim is really the product of Janeway's guidance. The officer he has become is largely thanks to Janeway's influence. (Frightening, isn't it?) It'd be interesting to judge Janeway's sucesses and failures as a Captain by using Kim as the basis of a judgement. It could be done, I'm sure-- but I'm not entirely certain what conclusions I'd draw.

This episode reminded me of season one shows like "Emanations" that I had long forgotten, but back then there was definitely that relationship between the two in the first two years of the series. Remember in "Emanations", where Janeway advised Kim to take a few days off to consider his ordeal, (with the wonderful quote: "It's easy to be jaded, to treat the extraordinary like just another day at the office"-- one of my favorites.) and "Deadlock", where there were similar scenes?

I thought they were long dead, but they were effectively recussicated in this episode. Another achievement of the fifth season which should not be underestimated.

Since that relationship between the two has been discarded in recent years, I was pleased and more than a little surprised to see Janeway and Harry come to terms with their relationship in such a well done manner as they did in this episode... especially in the Sick Bay scene.

Any scene which can send back memories of episodes I haven't seen in five years flooding back is one that I would have to give credit for being effective.

In that respect, this was an effective show and a good continuation of the character growth we've seen on the Harry Kim front this year, and for the series in general this is a solid success in returning to emphasizing character growth within the general cast this season.

OMIGAWD! Someone replaced Jason with a clone of ...
Terry -- 24 Feb 1999, 10:40 PM

ME!

Jason, what happened to my Alternate Universe me? We used to disagree on everything. Now, we seem to be in lockstep on episodes in season five.

Okay, we don't always like/dislike for the same reasons but still. It's frightening! I want my evil twin back!

RE: Kim & Janeway scenes...
Deborah47 -- 25 Feb 1999, 12:41 AM

...Ditto many of your comments Jason. I'll add to your list by recalling the scene in "Coda" where Janeway witnesses Kim's attempt at an eulogy (for her). The scene wasn't "real" but manufactured out of the memories and feelings the alien read in Janeway's mind for young ensign Kim. D47

If this episode is a Disease, I don't want to be cured.
Terry -- 24 Feb 1999, 9:29 PM

And if this episode is typical of future Voyager eps, I want many more. I really liked the style and point of this character episode.

This ep is typical of many season 5 episodes. Stupid-sounding idea is turned into a very interesting show. Instead of just a shallow ABOTW, Disease was an excellent story interweaving an interesting sci-fi idea around an well-written character study. Of Harry Kim's growth and his most important relationships with others.

First, the sci-fi. The idea and look of a generational ship was interesting. As was the exploration of what pressures can build in such an closed and claustrophic society. Rigid controls are necessary for survival but can also oppress the spirit of individuals.

I do have a problem with the idea the each module of such a ship having an independent propulsion and power systems. It is hardly the best design to have give warp drive to components never intended to separate. Attitude jets and impulse drive for emergencies, yes. Warp, no. In fact, how could an propulsion system function when the modules are fastened together?

I liked the idea of internal dissent and the need of the majority to suppress it to maintain the status quo. OTOH, these are practically the first really friendly aliens Voyager has encountered in years. So how do the rebels take Voyager's experiences as suggesting that aliens are mostly friendly? The chief honcho was right. Voyager is different. Most AOTW are hostile.

For the first time on Voyager, I really felt that Harry Kim was acting like a man. Like necessarily like a wise man, but an adult. And just not because he fights or gets angry but because he made decisions on his own and demanded and earned respect for his right to do so.

This episode showed, expanded upon, and altered several of Harry's main relationships. With Tom, with Seven, and with Captain Janeway.

I enjoyed seeing his friendship with Tom. He now seemed more of an equal with Tom. And Tom seemed to return that feeling.

It was nice to see Tom breaking rules to cover for Harry's misbehavior. Now that's real friendship. And I get the delicious feeling that if Harry has ever broken rules before, it was probably to help Tom cover his escapades.

I was glad to see a believable respect and friendship between Harry and Seven. There was no trace of the sickening puppy-love from Harry and Seven showed him some real respect.

In general, I got the feeling that Harry was acting much more like Garrett Wang. A man with a sense of fun and humor who is not the humorless drone so often seen before. And someone with some pride.

Third, the romance. I wasn't enamored of the romance here. It was a little sappy at times. But it still was better than the usual Chakotay-ABOTW love story. One good thing TPTB did was show us that more was happening off-camera than we saw. And I was glad to see that the romance wasn't the whole point of the story.

Miscellaneous note: I was a bit puzzled at first about Janeway's insistent on helping the aliens when they didn't want it. I eventually saw that she was trying to make friends and get new technology. Still, she was pretty pushy.

Some good scenes:

I loved the talk between Janeway and Chakotay about her initial reprimand of Kim. He voiced many fans' opinion that Janeway often lets her personal feelings interfere with her decision. If she was rough on Harry because she was surprised by his imperfect behavior, she was rough on Tom because he was betraying her special trust.

That was an excellent final talk between Janeway and Kim. It was an excellent continuation of their badly neglected relationship from season one and two. And it followed up on that in an emotionally honest manner. I liked and believed Janeway's affection for Kim.

Bottom line: one of the best written character stories that Voyager has had. And THE Harry Kim ep. Harry Kim finally comes of age. No sour notes.

Okay, one sour note. If Harry and Tal love each other so much, why didn't they stay together? Harry could have left Voyager or she could have joined Voyager. Huh?

Tom covering for Harry was nice, but also very disturbing
Jason -- 24 Feb 1999, 9:45 PM

After all, someone concealing authorized communication is a problme that Voyager's crew should *not* be taking lightly, considering the past precedent with Michael Jonas.

The thought of being tethered to a ship where the alien crew may be involved in some sort of subterfuge is one that should have Voyager's crew very, very concerned, and it's something that probably shouldn't have been forgotten or dismissed so easily.

Yes, it was an innocent use of the comm array, but was very irresponsible for Tom to sabotage Chakotay and Tuvok's investigation by cutting the signal. Considering Tom was very much involved last time this happened, it's something he should have been more cautious about.

I disagree. Tom knows Harry isn't a spy.
Terry -- 24 Feb 1999, 10:02 PM

If you can't cover for your best bud when he breaks some minor rule, you're not much of a friend. And after all, not only did Tom know Harry wasn't beng malicious, he had every reason to expect that straight-arrow Harry wasn't really doing anything dangerous. And he wasn't.

Tom already guessed what Harry was doing. And if he had been wrong, he could have gone to Tuvok with the truth with little harm done. Except maybe another 30 days. But what are friends for?

I'm not saying Tom was wrong to do that for Harry...
Jason -- 24 Feb 1999, 10:11 PM

I'm saying he shouldn't have covered up Harry's communication in a manner that points to the presence of a spy aboard Voyager.

Given what happened with Jonas, if you were Janeway and Chakotay reported to you that "we've detected someone making secret communications to the alien ship" would you say "Just let it go."? Doubtful. You'd be very concerned, especially in lieu of the revealation that there was a refugee aboard.

Granted Tom had no way to know this would happen, but it's just another reason why Tom either should have come up with a plausible "explanation" as a cover for it instead of pre-empting Chakotay and Tuvok's attempts to find out the source of the communication.

My mistake. But Tom did pretend to question
Terry -- 24 Feb 1999, 10:28 PM

whether it really was a transmission. Okay, that came off sounding a bit lame. But maybe they couldn't really tell. Or maybe Tom sabotaged the records. (Ooh, that would be so naughty!)

BTW, it seems like he's rigged up some special controls at the conn if he can disrupt communications and mess up Tuvok's security diagnostics. Oh yeah, every AOTW can do that!

Eric -- 24 Feb 1999, 10:10 PM

It was pretty much a given that harry would NOT get the girl in the end. Sure, i liked Gravity and i knew what the ending there would be but Gravity had more to offer. And besides RDM and Tuvok are better actors then wang could ever hope to be. And i know Tank Girl and Tal ain't her.

After Bliss and Dark Frontier this one blew bigtime.

C'mon, Eric. Tal was a lot hotter than Tank Gal.
Terry -- 24 Feb 1999, 10:31 PM

And we saw more of her. I prefer seeing Tank Girl with her clothes on, thank you.

That actress seemed to have some kind of British or Aussie accent. True?

THE DISEASE was Harry Kim, Foundation Imaging has a cure...
Eric -- 24 Feb 1999, 9:44 PM

UGH!

The only good thing about this episode was FI's terrific FX. The best thing about this season is FI have really perfected their technique. Compare their work in this episode with the early work they did in "Rise" for example. That opening shot with the rotating camera and the continuous shot into Tal's quarters was grrrreaaat!

Unfortunetly, then Harry opened his mouth! BLEEEECK!

And then the Tal opened her mouth! BLEEEECK X 2 :-(

The only way this could have been worse is if they had picked Chuckles for the Voyager stud. Sheeesh, then i probebly would have been asleep and making this post tomarrow :-)

But as it was, when Tal's mouth was closed she was kinda cute, not in the same league as Ryan, Lien or Dawson, not even close to Tank Girl! But she wasn't to bad, her problem was she stinks as a actress!

And the AOTW Captain! GWWWWWWAAAAAAADDD! That guy was more asleep then RB! The director should have given him some No Dose! Nope, the ONLY saving grace for this one was the FX.

The Good :

The FX, especialy that opening shot.

Even I have to admit, Eric... FI is finally earning their keep.
Jason -- 24 Feb 1999, 9:53 PM

Their work this season has been excellent.

I'm still not conceding their early work-- compared to models the junk they churned out in season three is pretty bad.

But whether it be Voyager being tethered to the alien ship or that wonderful wonderful shot of Voyager with the ship/module... or their work last week, I think they are making Voyager a much more visually interesting series.

Welcome to the Dark Side.
Shawnster -- 25 Feb 1999, 11:04 PM

"Strike me down, and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete."

Er, what was I saying?

Oh, yeah. That was my hope about Foundation Imaging. I do have to agree with you Jason. I've always thought that CGI was cool but obvious and models always looked better. But I was hoping they would improve with experience and, my hopes were answered.

MAMA!!!!
Leonie -- 24 Feb 1999, 10:33 PM

Attention all Nebula Personnel...

Season Five is back with good all round episodes,

Get yours and enjoy it before the Bad ASATT writers throw their own party!!!

(Sorry folks, a wee bit too much MASH in too short a time)!!!

I LOVED IT!!! Season V is back people, and I for one enjoyed every minute of it. Even Seven!!!

There's so much I have to say, (And everyone here knows that i will say it) but I am exhausted. Thankfully I'll have time to catch up on the Nebula and my breathing tomorrow, so see you then folks...

Until then I invite you to be brave and gutsy and take another look at Harry Kim. I think we can close the airlock now!!!

A surprisingly satisfying cup o`coffee
Ted Mullaney -- 25 Feb 1999, 12:55 AM

I am wicked(eh,Eric?) tierd right now, so I wont go to any great lengths with this post, suffice to say that I cant find anything bad to say about "Disease." I thought it was going to be a foul sham of an episode after seeing the previews last week, but it turned out to be an entertaining little dose of our favorite weekly serial. I really like the fact that they delved a little bit more into the mind of Harry Kim, I think his character hasnt gotten enough treatment over the years. Lets see... we also got a bit more of "mama" Janeway, Chakotay showing some personality and conflict with the Cap`n,Tom being Harrys bud, and maybe even a little jealousy or attraction out of Seven towards Harrys manly pursuits? I give Disease two thumbs up! By the way, did I detect a hint of a Russian accent in Harrys love interest? Man, I love Slavic women!

Lurked a little,
bern -- 25 Feb 1999, 3:07 AM

Liked a lot!

I haven't read everyones post yet...I am finally getting tired. But I am in pretty much agreement w/ all who liked this ep...expecting the worst after the preview, but I even liked "fave son" (okay only a little...)

This was no "fave son"though, It was much deeper and as stomach turning as the romance was, I felt most of those scenes were shor and painless.

I felt they treated an issue such as this in the most plausible manner.

The ending wasn't really "Yaate"like either...

and in true Tragic hero form, I like the way they departed...

There is no room for another "hot babe" on Voy right now, and if this is the shape of Harrys to come I think some of you might be eating those harsh words you had for him in the past.

Mrs. Mac -- 25 Feb 1999, 7:55 AM

Sheesh? Where do I begin? On the surface I liked "The Disease." It was well acted, the CGI was wonderful and the AOTW wasn't half bad. Harry is a better character this year than in any seasons past. However, there is one thing with this story that just doesn't ring true for me.

First BIG problem for me: Harry falls in love with the (older) AOTW in a span of two weeks. We see the crew (including Janeway) dirty, sweaty, and obviously working their tails off for those two weeks to get the alien vessel shipshape. Tom even makes mention to Harry that he "was clean," which indicates that even Harry was doing some dirty, arduous labor. So in a span of 2 weeks, Harry, who was probably working his a$$ off on this vessel has had the time to fall deeply and madly in love with this alien. Okay, so Harry jumps into things. I'll buy that. He has certainly done it before.

Harry is SO head over heels in love (in his estimation, as in love as Janeway was with Mark) that:

1) He risked bringing a potentially fatal disease to every crew member of both ships by his monkey love actions (not once but presumably even after Janeway chewed his shirt off)

2) He sends unauthorized secret transmissions (not once but presumably even after Janeway chewed his shirt off)

3) He beams Taul aboard a shuttle (against regulations)

4) Steals the shuttle (against regulations) and goes for a joy drive to the Nebula and probably would have made mad monkey love again had not our one-the-ball Tuvok reeled him in.

Now Harry, prior to this episode was a squeaky clean by-the-books man but yesterday he broke every rule and order he could to be with his love interest. Now here's my point. If this love was so incredible, and would grow and 'glow' better with every moment together why then didn't Harry request permission to join the alien ship or request to have Taul join their journey to earth? Excuse me? He was ready to leave it all behind in Favorite Son! Why not now? Those options existed! It's not like the Mark and Janeway situation. Harry has options here but they aren't mentioned! Hated that. If you are THAT deeply in love to risk your career, your loved ones, perfect strangers, and dump all the rules, you follow them anywhere.

Second big problem. Chakotay. Harry breaks all the rules.Chakotay says to Janeway, "Aren't you being a little hard on him?" WRONGO! Chakotay, that's why you're not the captain. Like Janeway said, she expects a little trouble out of Tom Paris. However, her squeaky clean ensign Kim has no excuse for what he did and should be dressed down before he develops Tom's habits. One free spirit is enough. In my opinion, this was a dumb scene.

What I would have liked to have seen: During Kim's screaming match with Janeway I would have loved to have seen Janeway put Harry in his place. She let him yell. She let him get into her face. One tiny little death stare that would have told Harry that he was stepping over the line was all I was asking for but no, he got so personal that he brought up her love life with Mark. One tiny little death stare! One thrust of the palm in the air would have turned Harry into a puddle of goo. For lesser transgressions Janeway has shown more grit.

What I liked and hated: I just loved the way Seven pouted when Harry wanted to speak privately to the doctor. It was just like the child she is in many ways. What I hated? Harry has a potential disease that could be transmitted and yet the doctor let's Seven walk out to potentially spread it around. If only she could! We'd have one of those wild fanfic stories!

What I didn't like: Harry saves the ship with a string of technobabble usually reserved for Seven. Yuck. It even sounded like Seven babble. I would have preferred to have Janeway save the day with Harry learning a lesson about how his actions may have caused some serious consequences. As it is, he pretty much got off scot free. Sure, it was put on his records but unless the crew seriously thinks their going to make it home in time for supper then he could care less what's on his official record. Personally, I would have given him some kind of menial duty or taken away some privileges. He should have been taught a lesson - as fairly as a captain would do for all other members of the crew. When she starts showing favoritism then she loses respect.

Overcute comment: Taul says that she is going to head for the Natori System that has a pair of binary stars caught in each other's gravity. Duh! Again, if the attraction between these two was so strong why aren't they still together?

Another good Janeway comment: "Stow it, ensign!"

47 seen: 74858 in Astrometrics.

It sounds like I hated it but I didn't. On the surface it was a good show but underneath the wraps there was a disease brewing. Harry Kim let his his hormones do the talking in this episode. He may be a man but he still needs to grow up.

Well Mrs Mac, I totally disagree...
Leonie -- 25 Feb 1999, 3:54 PM

I won't repeat what I thought about Kim's chosing not to go with Thal, it's in my answer to Ohio Babe or Deborah47. I thought that was completely keeping in character.

I will say though, I did think twice about Harry having the time to have a relationship, but when hormones get going, sleep is always optional and most of the time irrelevant.

The scene with Chak and Kate, Chak was perfectly right. He knows Kate well enough to realize that she was being too hard on him. There is discipline that makes it known that a wrong has been committed and consequences will ensure, and there is one that has a hard tinge of anger and hatred because of hurt that was imparted due to a personal feelings. Chak saw the latter.

She was perfectly right in her discipline, but like "30days" It was may more personal than professional and that was evident in what she told Harry in sickbay.

I hold the opposite view of this scene as compared to 30days. Where was Chak to tell her that her behavior towards Tom in 30days was more personal than professional?

As for allowing him to have his say and death stares. She may not have looked at him, but her voice spoke volumes. It was at the same level as the speech she gave to Tom in 30days. She did need to be reminded of what it meant to be in love. Not that she should have altered her discipline of him, but she should have shown a little more compassion.

And she let Tom have his say in 30days, she's let Neelix have his say in Once Upon a Time, she didn't change her decision, but she let them have their say.

As for her discipline. Cap'n Kate is famous for being incositent. 30days was the first time in five years that Tom ever disobeyed her. Loss of rank and Brig for a month. Chak did it in Manuevers after just two years, he got a report on his record. B'Elanna and Tuvok got off with reprimands in Prime Factors. All poor Neelix did was lie, to her and he got Dueterium Manifest duty cleaning duty in Fair Trade. In every one of the acts, the possible consequence was alienation of an alien species and the destruction of voyager.

It was a very good episode. But the parts that you hated, I absolutely enjoyed.

Roxanne -- 26 Feb 1999, 10:49 AM

It's nice to see Chakotay in the way. He's no longer the "Yes, Ma'am" officer that he has been. I like to see a little backbone in him. Whether or not he saw the discipline as more personal than professional, it's his job as the first officer to bring out her blind spots, and one of them is her two favorite boys.

Hear, Hear, Mrs. Mac!
Roxanne -- 26 Feb 1999, 10:44 AM

Thank you for saying what has been bugging me about this episode for 3 days now.

Harry was not in "Love"; Harry was in "LUV" or lust. To compare it to the long term relationship that Janeway had had with Mark was to degrade what she had with Mark.

"Harry, You always fall for the unattainable woman!"
Deborah47 -- 27 Feb 1999, 12:46 AM

first a hologram, then a BORG, then the wrong twin, and now a member of a Xenophobic species!" Poor Harry. It's been so long since he was in love (Earth / Libby) that he's "brand new" at it again, so you gotta cut my boy some slack, Roxanne. Lust? Luv? Love? It's often after the encounter is over that we can judge it's true meaning, and judging from Harry's demeanor in the mess hall I think we can say it was more than lust to the young ensign. MW Little once said "A youth with his first cigar makes himself sick. A youth with his first love makes everyone else sick." I think that's partly because they think no-one else feels as deeply as they do ("Have you EVER been in LOVE Captain?...") and any argument for "reason" is immediately suspect. It irritated you, Roxanne, and the Captain, but Janeway (Like Harry) learned from the experience. She remembered the flush of young love and I can assure you I'm NOT talking of Chak, NOR OF MARK! "The man I was engaged to marry...", remind me folks, has Janeway ever called him that before? Her love, her companion, maybe. No, Janeway was put back into a timewarp where she was confronting the feelings she had for her first love, and how HORRIBLE she felt when he died on the ice planet with her father (Mosaic by Taylor. I know we're not supposed to count novels in continuity, but since they referenced it in Coda- I'm using it). KJ is Captain but she's also an imperfect human and she needs her people to pull her up short when she's wrong. They did and she acknowledged it. Our Captain may not be the PERFECT Star Fleet officer, But she has become a BETTER woman! D47

I have to disagree with you, D47.
Roxanne -- 27 Feb 1999, 12:53 PM

First, the captain has called Mark "the man she was engaged to" when she told Chakotay about her letter in "Hunters(?)". She has know Mark since she was a child.

Second, yes, the first throbs of love very often are lust, then work into something deeper. In my many years of experience and observation, I've come to realize that the relationships that last the longest make those feelings secondary until the relationship becomes one of "best friends, then lovers." The angst that Harry was feeling at the end reminded me of a high school or young college age student just getting over a crush.

As for the conversation between him and Janeway, I think more that Janeway realized that she couldn't convince him any other way than with emotion because that's what he was dealing with. Yes, she remembers the flush of young love. She did experience it with Justin, and she knows where Harry is coming from. I think that's why she was able to pull herself back from her anger. She knew that what Harry was feeling was very real to him, and if left to continue might even become the long term relationship that we all wish for. Hence the change in conversation. She was very angry when Harry first brought up the question: "Captain haven't you ever been in love?" But she was able to step back a little from it.

Yes, she is a flawed human being. I think she forgets that sometimes because most the decisions rest on her final word. I said before, that even when Chakotay may be wrong about his assessment of the situation, it is his responsibility to point out the Captain's blind spots. As she said, Harry has not yet earned that right, but like all children going through their growing pains, Harry felt the captain couldn't possibly understand what he was going through.

Enough rant. :) Please don't be offended by anything I've said. I've just seen enough relationships fall apart that were based soley on chemistry to feel cynical about them.

Holy Starship, Batman!
Vickie T. -- 25 Feb 1999, 8:14 AM

This episode did something to me that I don't believe any other episode has ever done. During that dinner scene between Janeway and Chakotay when Chak was asking her if she hadn't been a little too hard on Harry, I found myself saying to Janeway, "You snotty b*tch." Waaah! I like Janeway. I don't think it was the dialog that provoked my response, I think it was KM's body language that caused me to feel that way. And, I hate it that KM conveyed that impression to me.

I also didn't like KM's performance in the opening scene between her and the head AOTW guy. I thought the dialog was stupid and again, I didn't like KM's body language in the scene.

Scenes on the Cutting Room Floor.

The bin of edited-out scenes for Star Trek must be enormous. There's the scene of Chakotay consulting with the Doc to make sure he can have sex with Kellin. There's the scene of Harry consulting with the Doc to make sure he can have sex with those "Favorite Son" women. And scenes of Riker's consultations with Dr. Crusher, well, they must be stored in a mega-warehouse over on the Paramount lot. If we've learned one thing from TOS, surely it is that it is relatively safe to have sex with the ABOTW. Kirk, after all, has tried them all, hasn't he?

Well, since I started out with gripes, let me carry on. The docking clamp controls not responding. Sorry, but has anyone ever heard of manual override? Surely something as potentially disastrous as docking clamps that won't release would have some kind of manual release, some big red button right outside the door for just such an emergency.

Then, the fact that Harry and Tal never even discussed staying together! Now that was incredibly unbelievable. I didn't really expect them to stay together, but they should at least have had some heart-wrenching discussion about the possibilities in which they eventually, reluctantly, decided to part. We didn't have to see the whole discussion, but some clear indication that it had taken place would have been nice. Even a simple question from Tom to Harry would have done it.

Well, I'm sure that I've given everybody the impression that I hated this episode. In fact, I actually liked it. Aside from those two scenes I mentioned earlier that really grated on me, this episode was very enjoyable. I'll start on my likes in my next post. Once again, work is interfering with my Nebula time.

My thoughts exactly.
Sue_B -- 26 Feb 1999, 6:16 PM

You and I had the same reaction. Between this episode and 30 days I am really starting to dislike Janeway's megalomania. A Captain MUST be approachable. I have liked Season 5 for the plotlines but the Captain's character is going downhill fast.

How many people would risk their lives for her when she treats them with so little respect?

Clearly someone in the writing department felt she needed to be more firm and to create conflict. I wouldn't want to work for her if she had such little respect for me (note: I AM in the military, her attitude is the kind of superior officer I would avoid).

A real disappointment. If you can't like the main character the show loses a lot. Janeway has some really good character traits but her superior attitude has lost my respect.

Deborah47 -- 27 Feb 1999, 1:47 AM

There are two sides to everything, Vickie, let me reinterpret Janeway's "Body language" and attitude. First, I don't think she was being flippant with the Alien Captain. She's been down and dirty with his warp engines (don't snicker Eric!) for the last 14 days. She's run into his prejudices on multiple occasions and probably knows the best way to disarm them was with Humor and Reason. As for the body language with Chak over dinner, I'm completely at odds here. I don't see it having ANYTHING to do with Young Ensign Kim, and EVERYTHING to do with her evolving relationship with Chakotay. She's relaxed and willing to let down the facade of her Captaincy. Look WHERE she's sitting. She's not across the table (AS in Timeless), she's relaxing next to Chak with NO barrier btw them. She even feels comfortable enough with their relationship to explain the REAL reason she came down so hard on Kim, and to get into a real give and take with Chak about it. And it's obvious from the last scene with Kim / Janeway that KJ DID listen to Chak!

Finally, a word to those neubbies who were upset about Kim getting a reprimand. WHO on the bridge crew DOESN'T already have one? B'Elanna started it all by breaking Lt Carey's nose in Parallax(?) and she still got to be chief Engineer. B'Elanna & Tuvok each got a significant one in "Prime Factors" and at least one's been promoted since then. Chak got one in "Maneuvers" and KJ's still willing to turn the ship over to him (Omega Directive / Night). Paris - need I say more ensign (30 Days), but he's still her helmboy. Seven? Shawnster says there's a 4000 character limit on messages so I won't even try to describe all her reprimands! The Doctor? Well technically he's not a bridge officer but his breakdown in Darkling and Latent Imaging must have rated a few "Captain's log" entries. (Heck even KJ got one from the Doc in YoH II, of course it doesn't count due to the reset button!) In the true scheme of things, Janeway knew that a reprimand would get Young Kim's attention and in the big picture wouldn't amount to a hill of coffee beans. IMHO - D47

Doctor, doctor, give me the news
Ginny -- 25 Feb 1999, 8:40 AM

I am so relieved. I just knew that I was going to be the only one (except maybe Carol and my soulmate Jules) who liked this episode. And I did like it, for a lot of reasons. I don't have too many gripes, but I do have a couple of questions.

GRIPES

--If there are Starfleet protocols for intimate contact with alien species, are we to assume that Tom got permission to commit adultery with that Ren woman, that Kes cleared her dalliance with that cute guy in THE DARKLING, that Chakotay ran his roll in the hay with Kellin by Kathryn first? And why didn't we ever hear Picard chew Riker a new one for nailing anything with two legs and an autonomic nervous system? Not that I think such a protocol is a bad thing, you understand--it's just news to me.

--I thought Kathryn was slamming Tom unnecessarily in her conversation with Harry. Tom hasn't shown any inclination to chase alien skirts in years. And let's face it, Death Glare or not, Kathryn's disapproval of such conduct on Tom's part would pale considerably in comparison to being disembowelled by a pissed-off half-Klingon.

And speaking of B'Elanna, I was a little surprised at her comment about Tom's digitial prowess on the console. Surely, the woman knows by now whether or not the man has good hands.

--Harry and Tal had a couple of awkward scenes, but they still struck more sparks than Chakotay and Riley, or Harry and Seven, or Chakotay and Kellin, or Tuvok and Noss, or Chakotay and Bob...

--Could Kathryn have been standing in a more awkward and embarassing position in her ready room just before her first conversation with Harry?

GRATIFYING BITS

--The opening shot of the colony ship was most impressive. And the scenes of the connecting sturts coming apart was pretty cool, too.

--I also liked the attention to detail and little moments in this episode, like Kathryn having to explain what "crossing your fingers" meant to the Varro leader, Tal and Harry commenting on the unexpected physical response in their sexual encounter, Tal climbing into Harry's lap on the shuttlecraft and then giving him a quick kiss (the kind of easy, affectionate interaction that is sorely missing in the Paris/Torres relationship), every head turning when Harry comes storming across the bridge after Kathryn, Tuvok beating a hasty retreat out of the conference room right before Kathryn takes Harry to task.

--I liked the fact that Tom comes to Harry's rescue, and also the very frank conversations that they have about Harry's relationship with Tal. This is what one would expect from a close friendship that has grown over 5 years. And whoever mentioned that Tom is treating Harry more as an equal (rather than as an adoring sidekick) is right--their relationship has changed considerably over the last two years. And I just cracked up when Tom commented that Harry was a terrible liar and hadn't he learned anything from Tom over the last five years.

--In addition to the Tom and Harry interchanges, there was some other great dialogue in this episode. All of the conversations/confrontations between Kathryn and Harry were well-written and well-played. Their final quiet conversation was as moving and revealing as anything we've seen in the last two and a half seasons, with the possible exception of that moment on the bridge in YOH between Kathryn and Tuvok. I've missed that mother-son connection between Kathryn and Harry. It makes dramatic sense, and it works for the two actors.

Also, I agree with whoever said that the tenor of Harry and Seven's interaction has changed--for the better. All I can say is "Thank goodness". I wondered at Harry asking Seven about love in the first place, but it turned out to be a good way to move the two characters into a better relationhip and understanding of one another.

-Several folks have commented on the fact that, if Tal and Harry were so in love, why didn't he stay with her, or she come with him on Voyager. Shyeah, like a main Star Trek character has never refused to leave the ship/station/Starfleet just because they fell hopelessly in love with an alien. And there's no way in hell that TPTB would add another nubile young woman to the cast to detract attention away from Seven. Besides, it's pretty clear from almost the beginning that Tal and Harry realize that they aren't going to be able to stay together, and with the enthusiasm of the young and hormone-driven, make the most of the relationship in the time they have. It just happens that alien physiology intervenes, and they make a carnal and emotional connection that they didn't anticipate. Remember, Tal was surprised when Harry told her he had started to luminesce.

--There were some great lines in this ep:
"You owe me." This is becoming something of a watchword between Tom and Harry.
"It was like touching an open plasma relay." Wow. No wonder Harry started luminescing spontaneously.
"You're beautiful when you're scanning." Thus proving that love is not only blind, it's just a little bit stupid.
"Sometimes, I think everyone on this crew has been possessed by alien hormones." What's yer point, Doc?

--The 47's
There were 7 blue bars of light in Harry's cabin, and 4 small metal bars on the windows of Tal's cabin.
There were 4 sets of 7 lights in Sick Bay.
Segment 16, Station 204--204-16=188, 188=4x47
Molecular scan 183 on B'Elanna's console--8-1, 3-1...7,4
Numbers on Tom's console--9, 16, 30, 44, 38, 6...30+44=74, 9+38=47

--And the guest NOTW (number of the week) is 22.
Harry was allegedly checking the manifold in segment 22.
Tal waited 22 minutes for Harry to call.
The remaining two numbers in the string on Tom's console, 16 and 6, add up to 22.

All right!!!!!
Leonie -- 25 Feb 1999, 9:19 AM

I don't even know where to begin with this one, so I guess I'll just start from anywhere...

The Romance

OK, I will admitt it, some of the lines between Thal and Harry were just enough to make me reach for the pink stuff that coats. However the one thing I really enjoyed about the romance was the fact that it didn't happen within a two day period, but one of two weeks. That was really good because whereas Chak maybe the Stud of the Delta Quadrant since Tom has taken himself out of the running, Harry falling in love enough to disobey orders within two days would have been completely unbelievable. His selection of women is completely off the mark, but he is not a love em and leave 'em kind of guy.

I also liked the fact that even though he was underneath some kind of alien influence, he didn't run from what he felt and he bore the consequences of his actions and fought for what he wanted. Ensign Kim with a backbone, what a refreshing thought!!!

Friendships

The interaction between members of the bridge crew was really wonderful to watch. Tom and Harry being friends and their positions being reversed with Tom covering for Harry when he broke the rules. The concern on Tom's part for what Harry was doing was really touching. It's been a long time since we've seen a more serious side of their friendship.

JetC. I know that there will never be a romance on screen between these two, but I feel that I've been given the next best thing, a solid friendship and working relationship. I had remarked that in Dark Frontier I found that Janeway was getting a little too arrogant and I was afraid that we were going to go back to season 3-4 Janeway, who never asked and never cared about anyone else's opinion and suggestions. I was glad that Chak called her on what she had done to Harry and what were her motives behind them. I got the feeling from the episode that he had given her something to think about and that was the reason that she went to talk to Harry in the end.

Seven and Harry

It was also gratifying to see the two of them interacting on a more equal and mature level. It was very surprising to see how far the two of them had come from "Revulsion". Harry was no longer nervous and immature around her and I could understand why he chose to ask her about love. I enjoyed the fact that Seven took the time to answer Harry's questions even though it was clear that at the time that she thought it was irrelevant.

The last scene was something else I liked too. I must admit that I was a little puzzled as to why Seven would change her mind about love being a disease after seeing what Harry went through, but I thought it was great that she took the time to come and talk to him and wish him well.

Mama Janeway

It's been a long time since I've seen that side of Janeway's character (From Season II) The last time we got it was in Timeless. We also so evidence of it in Extreme Risk. It was nice that it was here too. I absolutely loved the part when she told him that although he wasn't a perfect officer anymore he was a better man than before, brought tears to my eyes... (Sniff, Sniff, HONNNNK. I'm going to have to admit, Harry has done a lot more growing up this season than he's done in the last three, AT LAST!!!!

The B Plot

I found that it wasn't lame and I was glad that it was more of an A2 plot than a subplot. The aliens were good. The fact that they were friendly with voyager after being initially suspicious was even better. I liked the idea that they were just like Voyager in the beginning. And I know that it may have been no time for this, I would have loved to see a scene between JetC (Of course) talking about the issues that the presence of that generational ship raised.

Janeway told the head honcho over there that they were similar in the fact that they had started off in the same was as Voyager and the generational ship may in a way be Voyager's future. So supposed Voyager became like them, with a few people committed to the goal that was being pursued and the rest of the people dissatisfied and wanting to go their own way.

In "37's" Janeway had to face that possibility and then she discovered that everyone was with her. If I were her, what happened on the alien ship would make me revisit that question, what if some of the crew were not committed to going back to Earth somewhere down the line, would she let them go again?

Other questions that would come up would be ones about how best to fulfill "Seek out new life and new civilization" and "The fastest way home without any deviation" together at the same time.

All in all

Great writing, great plots and acting by Wang, Mulgrew and Ryan. The ABOTW was REALLY a babe, (However no woman I've seen yet can beat T'Pel in Bliss)and a decent actress. A lot of people got in on this one. Neelix had a part, Tom and Chak.

However, I must say, B'Elanna has been ignored a lot lately.....

Anyway,

If I were part of the cast I would be a little jealous. Harry has had two of the best episodes for Season V.

Leonie, a question...
Eric -- 25 Feb 1999, 11:27 AM

I agree that FS was just awful, but why pick on Demon? It's been awhile but I remember liking that one well enough. Someone must have liked it since it's getting a sequel next week!

Leonie -- 25 Feb 1999, 11:58 AM

I didn't like it from the perspective of a Harry Character episode. The Jokes were lame and in terms of story it was also on the unbelievable side. When I see Timeless and Disease, I am more convinced that Harry's Character experienced growth, than when I look at Demon.

Terry -- 25 Feb 1999, 6:00 PM

I thought the generation ship grew from one module with new ones being built and added on as the population expanded. Notice that the design was well-suited for expansion. Just insert another module into the chain.

Remember Janeway compared her situation to their. She said that Voyager might have to expand similarly over the generations. Which BTW makes absolutely NO sense. They're only thirty years or less from home. Barely enough time to raise one 1/2 generations if they start right now.

Ginny -- 25 Feb 1999, 6:13 PM

Maybe Kate was just sucking up to the Varro leader.

OTOH the way the crew complement mysteriously fluctuates, they may actually need the extra room.

It could be that, after the colony ship reached a certain size, each new module was equipped with some sort of thruster technology, if for no other reason that to make a rather large, ungainly vessel more maneuverable.

Ruth -- 25 Feb 1999, 6:29 PM

I also thought Janeway's "generations" comment was a little odd. A casual viewer might not know how close VOY is to home, but there has certainly been a lot of discussion of it over the internet. Most folks think VOY is about half way home. And even 70 years doesn't seem that long, given that in four and a half year only one child has been born (apparently), and various crew members keep getting killed.

And the others are getting reprimanded for a little something like getting a girlfriend that their Mom doesn't approve of. :-)

Deborah47 -- 25 Feb 1999, 8:06 PM

A generational ship was TPTB's warning to Voy fans that complain too much about Janeway's tendency to "stop and peer into every nook and cranny" in the Delta Quadrant, about her tendency to search out new civilizations instead of flying straight for home. That she risks too much in her dealings to get her crew home at any cost. Here we see what happens when your Captain DOESN'T do that. A spacefaring species so afraid of contact with others they'd rather give up space travel than have KJ repair their warp drive. People on board so unhappy with their xenophobic lifestyle they'd destroy the ship in order to be free. It seems TPTB have been listening to the grumbling out here in the badlands and responded with a "what if" scenario.

What if the generational ship WAS voyager? They also responded to so many complaints about lack of effective use of Kim, of lack of development of shipboard relationships, (Kim/JK, Kim/Paris, Kim/Seven,) and the perennial question - just what do terran bees and alien birds do when together? Now if the could only restore my favorite friendship from season I, btw "Maquis" & "Star Fleet" (BT & HK for the newcomers.) D47

Ruth -- 25 Feb 1999, 6:49 PM

Another comment I thought was somewhat strange given what has happened earlier this season: Janeway's telling Harry she wouldn't have been surprised if Tom had done something like this. I thought the implication was that she wouldn't have gotten as angry.

30 Days was only about, what 30 days ago? Longer than that, I guess, but Tom is still an Ensign because he disobeyed Janeway's orders. Tom's sins weren't of the flesh, and Harry's were mitigated by the "love disease," but in the course of one season Janeway has felt betrayed by her two "sons" -- the prodigal she thought had fully repented, and the child she saw as perfect.

If things keep going this way, Seven will be considered the "good child." ;-)

Voyager Fan -- 25 Feb 1999, 8:18 PM

Harry Kim is at the center of this story bout love and growth, light years away from his blood family but with a pretty big adoptive family in its place. First we see him with Brother Tom, who knows something is up and therefore goads him and offers unsolicited advice. Later Tom covers for Harry, at no small risk to himself, by sabotaging Harry's illicit transmission to Tal, his alien sweetie, when Tuvok and Chakotay are on the verge of discovering where the transmission originated. I loved this characterization of Tom, ribbing and protecting Harry and trying to steer him away from trouble.

Next we see Harry asking for advice about love from Sister Seven, who responds to Harry with some of her Borg brusqueness but still tries to comply with Harry's request. With typical Borg dismissiveness she classifies romantic love as a disease that 6000 species are susceptible to, although she recants by the end of the episode. (An aside - I would like to clarify that the episode deals with romantic love in its first obsessive stages, which is clearly not the same sort of deep, comfortable romantic love that a married couple of ten years would experience.) Harry is a little put off by her assessment, although he later recites it to make a point to the Captain. The conversation is interrupted by Harry's luminescent skin. In spite of his protests, Sister Seven marches him off to sickbay. Once in sickbay, Seven reluctantly responds to Harry's request to depart when he whispers the magic word, "Please," which Seven herself used to good effect in "Dark Frontier".

Then Harry faces with Papa Doc, who was uncharacteristically terse and humorless in this episode. First the Doctor forces Harry to explain precisely what went on between him and the alien, and then he lectures Harry about the consequences of not thinking. Then Papa Doc delivers the final blow; he is going to have to tell Mama Kate.

Mama Kate is staring out of the window when Ensign Kim arrives. She is too disappointed to look at him directly, or perhaps she is trying to make him feel smaller than he already does. Her voice is controlled and sorrowful, but unmistakably angry as she says, "I expected more from you." She lays on the guilt trip, Harry violated Starfleet protocol regarding intimate contact with aliens (things sure have changed since Captain Kirk roamed the galaxy - or maybe his hanky panky is the reason Starfleet created a book of guidelines three centimeters thick), he jeopardized the trust between Voyager and the Varros, he may have introduced a biothreat to the Varros, and he threatened Mama Kate's goal to obtain technology and assistance from them. The Captain concludes by issuing a formal reprimand and ordering him to break off the relationship. Harry is duly chastened and contrite during this scene, satisfying Mama Kate that she needn't expect any more trouble from her wayward crewman.

Then there is the dinner scene between Uncle Chakotay and Mama Kate. Chakotay is finally decently drawn in this episode. We get an idea of what he does all day, he has convincing lines, and he gets a spine. We see him organizing the crew, dealing firmly with the stowaway, "Your next stop is the Brig", and carefully defending Ensign Kim to the Captain at dinner. I loved him telling her what she didn't want to hear. He asserts that Janeway was too hard on Harry because she took his disobedience personally, that Harry is devastated, and that she should reconsider her formal decision. He fails to
change her mind, but his words clearly have had an impact later in the episode. I also loved seeing him leap to his feet with visible concern when Janeway storms onto the bridge followed by an overwrought Harry who shouts imploringly, "Captain!"

Harry Kim was mostly believable, although the idea of him having sex after a mere two weeks didn't exactly mesh with my preconceived ideas about him, so I was a bit abashed at the opening scene. Harry seemed a bit stiff and abashed himself, actually, especially having his chest kissed, although this is explained later in the episode as he agonizingly rants about duty and responsibility and orders versus love. But I quickly bought into his relationship with Tal (who was a very engaging, lively young woman bursting with the merriment and energy of youth), and accepted that their relationship was somehow more than sex in spite of its short duration, which is a credit to everyone involved.

Garrett Wang really shines in his scenes with Mulgrew, however. I think they have wonderful screen chemistry -- he seems to admire her and she seems genuinely fond of him. His transformation from the penitent Ensign that Janeway first confronts to the emboldened, passionate young man desperate to make the Captain understand him in their second confrontation was so real. Harry is near tears in this scene, you could see how upset he was to have incurred Janeway's fury (and boy was she mad, I've never seen her so mad, she actually lost her self-control and yelled, "I told you to report form treatment!" at Harry on the bridge), how terrified he was by the thought of being treated medically for his olan vora (Tal apparently has no similar qualms bout medical treatment), how love sick he was for Tal, and how angry he was that Mama Kate didn't want to listen to him.

And we know why. "He's just an Ensign, he hasn't earned the right to question my orders," Janeway told Chakotay. She also admitted - with a bit of a SMILE no less - to coming down hard on Harry to "make a lasting impression". And she reduced his disobedience to mere "growing pains", rather than anything more substantive. While I didn't agree with her, I loved these admissions and the completely unabashed way she made them, particularly since her position changed by the end of the episode. I don't mind seeing Janeway's flaws as long as they are noted or addressed or resolved in some way.

At the dinner, Janeway is supremely confident in the correctness of her position. Perhaps you'd expect her to have learned from "Latent Image" that her preconceived ideas of who she is dealing with have the potential to negatively affect her decisions, but there are enough differences between her pet Ensign and her holographic medical officer to make her behavior plausible.

Anyway, Harry, in a last ditch attempt to make the Captain see him differently, appeals to Janeway's own experiences with love. Would she accept medical treatment to eliminate the pain of having loved and lost Mark? Janeway realizes that she wouldn't. And she realizes that Harry wanted to live with and learn from his experiences, even if they had been heightened by alien biochemical imbalances. Janeway's rationale for ordering Harry to sick bay for treatment was not so much to spare him pain, but to restore Harry to his former, cheerfully compliant self. And Janeway realizes she has no right to micromanage Harry at the emotional level with her preconceived ideas of who he is. Faster than Voyager can be rocked by a blast, Janeway relents, reconsiders her position, and allows Harry to assume his post.

The last scene between them was so nice, a very honest and poignant conversation. Janeway actually explains herself to Ensign Kim, demonstrating her new respect and appreciation for him and his personal growth. As Captain, she will still punish him for violating orders, but she will allow him to make decisions about his non-life threatening medical condition. She lets him go, she severs the proverbial apron strings.

The aliens - I'm glad the writers used them to tell a parallel story about letting go, where Tal and her group seek freedom from the restrictive, cloistered life the alien Captain confined them to. I was worried that Tal would turn out like Kayshik in "Counterpoint", trying to manipulate Harry and Voyager. But the love story was straightforward, with the twist that alien sex apparently heightens and accentuates normal biophysical responses to love. I didn't like this spin on alien love, but I guess it was an excuse for Harry's literal glow that betrays him, and it gave Janeway an "out" for not throwing Harry in the Brig when he defied her direct orders the second time. Otherwise, it would sure look inconsistent for her to let Harry off the hook when she demoted Paris and threw him in the brig for - among other things - disobeying her orders in "30 Days".

Quick wrap up - I liked Janeway down and dirty in the bowels of the alien ship trying to repair it. I liked her banter with the alien Captain. I liked the way she gained Tal's cooperation, "Do you intend to take lives?". And I really liked Tal; she was intelligent and appealing, passionate and defiant, lively and curious. I enjoyed the special effects, although they were few, of Harry's glow and of the multigenerational ship splitting apart. And finally, I liked Seven's cryptic "Love can be a source of strength" to Ensign Kim. Just how had Harry been strengthened by love? He stood up to the Captain and forced her to see him differently. He convinced Janeway to extend Voyager's shielding to allow the alien evacuation to be completed. And he was channeling his lovesick misery into productive ends, rather than medicating his pain away. I had a few nits, too minor to mention. I give this episode a 9 out of 10 for its watchability and its terrific characterizations.

"Love is a social disease."
Shawnster -- 25 Feb 1999, 10:38 PM

I loved this episode I cant believe how much I enjoyed this episode.

I don't know where to begin Who was the actress ABOTW She looked very familiar.

I guess the reason why I liked this one so much is because I can see myself as Harry. I really understood where he was coming from. His embarrassment, confusion, and yearning to continue the relationship really came through.

Nice scenes included his confession with the Doctor. Asking Seven to leave the room. I can understand his reluctance and embarrassment to talk about it in front of her. After all, he might carry the smallest flicker of a torch for her (I firmly believe once you fall infatuated with someone, you will always have a special place in your heart for that person). Even if he doesn't have any feelings toward Seven any longer, she's still not 'one of the guys.'

Priceless dinner scene with Janeway and Chakotay. Almost a J/C scene. This is how they really should act in private. Relaxed, at ease with each other.

Tom Harry's best bud in the world. Loved him covering for Harry. Now that's what a bud does. Favorite Tom Paris line; "Haven't I taught you anything these past five years?" when referring to Harry's poor attempts to cover up the relationship.

Such an attraction between Harry and Tal. Too bad it wasn't explored further. The physical attraction was more in line with infatuation (lust) than it was true love.

Which brings me to my small dissertation on love. I disagree with Seven. Love, true love, doesn't cause symptoms similar to a disease. The confusion, sweaty palms, etc comes from lust. True love is deeper, stronger. True love really betters a person. Love makes a person stronger and more complete. It doesn't confuse or turn the individual into a blubbering mass. Therefore, true love isn't something that happens overnight or over the course of a couple of weeks. People fall into like but have to grow into love.

Love hopes all things, believes all things, endures all things Love never fails.

I was taken aback by Janeway's reaction. Regulations? What regulations? Let's look at some of our heroes from the past and note their actions.

Kirk. Well, most of Kirk's flings were with humans. However, there was the fling with the Scalocian queen in "Wink of an Eye." The scene in mind is where she's doing her hair and Kirk is sitting on the bed putting his boots back on.

Spock. True, he was under the influence of mental contact with savage Vulcans but he had a fling with Mariette Hartley in "All Our Yesterdays."

Riker. Riker was the willing love slave of the woman president in "Angel One." Riker was, in fact, Kirk's successor

Chakotay. Hasn't Chakotay had his share of Alien Babes?

Janeway. Oh, come on. If she didn't, she would have on a couple of occasions Kashyyk comes to mind.

Yet Harry gets a reprimand.

Loved to see Harry's backbone. Between this scene and his scenes with the Hirogen in "Killing Game," we're starting to see a more assertive Harry I hope they keep it up.

Seven coming to Harry at the end of the show "Get well." A Kodak moment.

I understand where Harry is coming from with liking the "wrong twin." That goes along with true love. Mental and emotional compatibility .There is something in Megan's (it is Megan, isn't it) mental or emotional make-up that attracts Harry. Delaney is just too aggressive, forward for Harry. Harry wants a relationship not a one night stand or casual thing

I liked the generation ship concept They built and expanded their ship over 400 years The dissident movement could have been a separate plot in an episode. That is a story for classic science fiction.

Praise to Foundation Imaging. Loved it.

TKS -- 1 Mar 1999, 2:09 PM

Ohio State basketball aired on Wednesday night, and I was unable to watch Voyager until last night.

I haven't read everyone's post, and I'm not sure I'll get through them all, so forgive me if I repeat what someone else has said.

When I saw the beginning I wanted to throw-up, are we watching Melrose Place, but unfortunately it was Harry I saw, so I knew that I wasn't dreaming. When I did see the beginning I was sure I would hate the show. I was very surprised.

I noticed that Biller had a hand in this episode, because I saw his name other than just as a producer. The episode improved as it progressed. I liked how Paris covered for Harry, and then reminded Harry that he owed him. Tom has been in trouble this year, and he compounds it, fortunately he wasn't caught. I sometimes wonder about Tuvok's ability as chief security officer. I would think he would know every trick in the book, oh well. I wonder if Neelix will make security officer this year? He knows quite a bit about security, if he is the one to mention the use of the replicator for life support in a jeffries tube. Will we finally see Neelix in uniform?

I had no trouble believing that both Tal and Harry had fallen in love, but I knew from the beginning that both would part, although since she seemed to be one of the dissidents, you would think that she would ask to join the Voyager crew to be with Harry. O.K. I'm not being realistic, TPTB are not about to add another character to the Voyager roster.

I wonder just why they developed that manual, my guess is that it has a lot of history behind it. My guess is that usually most species that Starfleet has come to didn't mind being scanned for potential harmful diseases, including STD's, and of course the crews didn't mind undergoing the same scans for the protection of the species they are contacting. The difference here is that this species was xenophobic, and scanning would be out of the question, in order to board Voyager. I'm am sure that the Voyager crew were scanned for diseases since they were on the aliens ship. Maybe they didn't scan for STD's.

I agree with the Captain that Harry disobeyed orders, and I thought that she was very hard on Harry. My guess is that she didn't expect Harry to disobey orders, because he has always been one to go by the book. I can see her saying that she would expect Tom to disobey orders, because Tom is a rebel at heart. I have always believed that Tom was a rebel from the first year that Voyager aired. Tom acts on his emotions, he doesn't always think logically. I can see him being both thoughtful when taking into account others emotions, and being very explosive at the same time you need only see YoH again to know what I am saying.

Harry didn't start speaking up until last year. I don't think that Janeway expected him to be so forceful. I think she expected him to back down. When Harry disobeyed the second time I thought I saw Janeway go through the roof. She seemed to understand him better at the end, but I think the reason for her softer tone was that she understood Harry's reasoning, but she let the reprimand stand.

I thought the show was fantastic.

Kaz -- 1 Mar 1999, 11:19 PM

I have not seen the episode yet. eager to do so. From your comments.

I am not surprised that Starfleet would have regulations, protocols and codes of conducts which would concern themselves with all aspects of a persons life including ones sexual partners. They are a military organization. Hopefully sex will not be a great issue in the future and the whole thing can be discussed with cadets openly (except for the Vulcans who receive their copies in brown envelopes which they never open and pretend doesn't exist).

That they have not been mentioned previously does not worry me. In the the military today, there is a difference between what the rules say and what the individual practices, and the military culture allows, and even the unwritten rules can differs between ranks. I am sure the older wiser crew of the TOS would rethink some of their antics in the past and how following your heart could cause harm to others.

Harry to me was foolish. His behaviour and Toms fall short of adult standards. Falling in love is not an excuse for endangering the ship and being deceitful. Perhaps it was less true love than an attraction and the desire not to be alone - an escape from his current routine. Infatuation. He should be reprimanded and take it as an officer and gentleman and not throw a tantrum. The Captain should have shut him up with a stare and dismissed him with a hiss and that "I'm disappointed" body language. The Captain likewise should be told that her crew are not children and she needs to respect their boundaries (from the sounds of it she was told and stepped back).

I like episodes with a "human" touch to them (To all aliens pardon the use of the term human)and I hope to see more of them. I also have missed Harry.

Ahhh, Brown envelopes!!!
TKS -- 2 Mar 1999, 6:38 AM

I had to admit I liked that, I had a nice chuckle. Although it appears to have come out of nowhere, it doesn't surprise me that they have it. It isn't unusual now either, there are certain protocols to follow that the military must follow when they are guests in another country. I am certain Kirk knew of those rules as well, but threw the book out the window.

At the beginning I was sure it was lust, and not love. The end changed my mind, of course he was suffering from alien influenced chemical imbalance, so I reserve the right to change my mind when I view the episode again. You're right both Tom and Harry behaved irresponsibly.

I like the brown envelope concept too, Kaz. It's so very Vulcan. :-)
Jules -- 2 Mar 1999, 7:16 AM

As for the, ahem, "rules of engagement"... it makes perfect sense to me that such a thing would exist. As others have pointed out, there have been occasions in our history where one isolated social group has been more or less wiped out simply because their immune system had never been given the chance to build up resistance to some bug introduced to them by an encounter with another group, and that's just between people who come from the same genetic stock. If you wheel in whole new species to the equation, the problem has got to be compounded.

Sure, it's never come up before. But none of the other Trek crews apart from the TOS one have ever been faced with quite the same level of constant "first contact" situations as Voyager does... and that was made at a time when storytelling was, on the whole, painted in much broader and simpler colours. Jim's done a pretty telling survey of all of Voyager's qualifying encounters to date, and it's a pretty small list really. The main and most enthusiastic transgressor seems to be Chakotay; particularly if, like me, you believe that Tom's encounter with Lidell Ren in "Ex Post Facto" was more a case of being called on what he thought was a little harmless flirting, and getting in way beyond his depth. He certainly seemed more kissed against than kissing. Small wonder he's never shown much inclination for off-ship romances since. :-)

And, on the subject of Tom, his behaviour here sounds very typical. Cover for your friend first, and then have a quiet word with them about their behaviour afterwards and try to change their minds then if you think they're being excessively foolish. It's pretty much what he seemed to be doing for B'Elanna in "Extreme Risk" in that conference with Janeway and Chakotay where - despite having called her on her behaviour himself earlier, he feigned ignorance of there being a problem at all until it became clear that the other two knew too much to be deterred, at which point he switched to helping them ponder upon a possible course of action.

From that point of view he's a good friend, because he's selfless enough to put the person in trouble ahead of himself. On the other hand, there's always the danger with someone that quixotic that they'll pull you in with them on some other occasion... :-)

TKS -- 2 Mar 1999, 10:49 AM

I am more familiar with zoonotic diseases than I am with human immune responses to diseases that humans pass onto other humans. I have been reading all the other responses to this thread, and I did see the mention of malaria, a parasitic disease, which is impossible to fight, because of the nature of parasites, which uses the bodies defense system to hide. Humans are the definitive host for the parasitic disease malaria, the mosquito the intermediate host for the parasitic disease malaria. It needs both for it's life cycle.

Viruses like small pox, a pox virus, and measles a paramyxovirus, unfortunately I am more familiar with Distemper in dogs which is a paramyxovirus than measles. Generally not always though diseases are species specific, but one exception is rabies a zoonotic disease, Hanta virus is a zoonotic disease. I have a veterinary background, so public health is first and foremost a great concern.

When I think of aliens, I generally think different species, and precautions should be taken, just as they did with the astronauts that returned from the moon. They didn't want to introduce harmful microorganisms.

I am sorry, but I do at times speak in broad sweeping statements. The reason I question it is that it has never been expressed before in Star Trek, why now? Don't get me wrong I am glad they finally did, and I suppose they have always had the protocol. The danger was there from the moment Kirk made contact as it were.

I have suspended some of my knowledge for the sake of star trek, for instance the existence of Spock, B'Elanna, Troi, and Naomi to name a few. So I take everything I see with a grain of salt. >:-)

Jules -- 2 Mar 1999, 2:49 PM

Suspension of scientific disbelief. I guess that's why they call it Science Fiction.

I agree with you about the suspect biology, although it's probably no more implausible than some of the physics treknobabble that also gets thrown around. The trick, I think, is to slip just a grain of truth in there as well, a few plausible buzz words, enough to make the audience willing to swallow the bigger and more problematical stuff.

And, didn't they once try to imply that there's some common genetic heritage between most of the Alpha Quadrant races, as a way of explaining away some of the hybrids?