The Coffee Nebula Board is for the discussion of Star Trek: Voyager and other sci-fi/cult shows. This is its Archive of episode discussions, top ten lists, fan fiction, and other miscellaneous musings.
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"Who would have thought that this eclectic group of voyagers could actually become a family. Starfleet, Maquis, Klingon, Talaxian, hologram, Borg... even Mr Paris." |
BlissBlissful set up, but the whole is just so-so I don't know. The first twenty minutes or so were very good and had me thinking that the story wouldn't be lame like I was afraid it would be. Then, from the moment that Naomi started walking down the corridors passing the incapacitated crew, something happened and the episode lost its footing. Cheers I thought that about the first twenty minutes of the episode were rather good, with Janeway being downright cynical and skeptical about their supposed good fortune, turning to the crew's giddiness regarding going back to Earth (even from Neelix). Letters From Home Part II and discovering what most of the crew is hoping for when they return. Tuvok seeing his wife again, Janeway sill kind-of hoping former fiancé Mark will somehow become available again, Chakotay hoping for a pardon and let back into Starfleet, B'Elanna hoping to discover that all her Maquis friends are still alive, etc. Small Nit: Katie darlin', Mark didn't get engaged to be married to someone else, he married someone else. I guess TPTB didn't want to say that the man had divorced his new wife for her or something. :-) Seven's apprehension at all the joy around her was very telling also. Even though she suspected it was a deception, you could see that part of her wished that she was as excited at the prospect of going to Earth as much as the rest of the crew was. How else to explain the letter to "Annika Hanson"? :-) "The Beast" was trying to appeal to that need in her, though it didn't work. Fine performance by Jeri Ryan in those scenes. Though she got a little annoying during one or two scenes (particularly when she had Seven carry her), nice performance by Scarlett Pomers. I'm thoroughly glad that Naomi didn't save the ship -- at least not really. She help a little bit, but that's all. No "Wesley Syndrome" had hit her yet. :-) I know some out there
aren't going to like the fact that out of a crew of Excellent FX. Foundation Imaging is one of the best things that happened to Voyager. I can't wait to see the work they've done for next week's episode. Quotable Quotes: A direct route to Earth's doorstep. Out of the blue. What's wrong with this picture? Jeers The LOTW (Lifeform Of The Week) plot was so-so. The deception it conceived with the wormhole was more interesting than the fight between Seven, the AOTW Ahab et al to get away from it. The first time Seven announced that Voyager had gotten away from it I knew it was the Creature deceiving her to think they had. I didn't think the second attempt would work either, but it did which gave the whole thing a rather anticlimactic feel. All I could think at the end was, "That's it?" I didn't care about the obsessive desire of the AOTW Ahab to "Kill The Beast" or when he went back to the "Beast" at the end to do battle once again. The last shot seemed rather tacked on IMO. It was nice that we saw what Tuvok and Neelix saw in their "Bliss"ful states and we herd B'Elanna talking to the people she was seeing, but I wish we could have seen what some of the others were in the crew were seeing. Was Tom being happily reunited with his father? Was Harry getting promoted? Was Janeway home in Indiana with Mark and her family? Was Chakotay punching out Mark and claiming Kathryn for his own? ;-D If we had seen it anything, it might have been real telling. Next Week -- A Voyager movie! More action that First Contact! Janeway Vs The Borg Queen for Seven's soul! Will they play a game of chess for it!? Tune in next week! :-) One moment with bliss repay unnumber'd hours of pain. Okay, it was more like one hour of slight boredom. Ahab makes Moby Dick regurgitate the ship does not make for epic drama. Likes: "I'm a doctor, not a dragonslayer." is one of the best Doctorisms of all time. "I'm sort of a Renaissance EMH." was pretty darn good, too. It was mildly interesting to hear what each character desires in life. The obvious ones were Neelix as an ambassador and Tom as a test pilot (near the beach, natch). And B'Elanna wants her Maquis comrades alive again. Chakotay as professor of anthropology was less obvious. But bad news to you J/Cers, Janeway would rather have Mark back than have Chakotay! I like Naomi better this time. I especially liking seeing Tom with her. I've always thought that Tom would be great with kids and was always disappointed to see Neelix and Seven! taking on all of the babysitting chores. It seems to me that kids would like a fun guy like Tom who loves playing. "Can't we make first contact with somebody? Or get in a space battle" "Ye-ah, can we?" "No." Seven was pretty good. She was pretty good with Naomi but it wasn't a great role. Dislikes Sorry, Braga, but I can have absolutely no respect for an ep which doesn't bother to offer a decent explanation why Seven and Naomi are immune to the influences of the beast. Okay, Seven's Borg but Naomi? Makes no sense even if she didn't want to go home. (BTW, she should want that badly since she would finally meet her father.) And why did the beast put everyone to sleep? They could have stopped Seven. And if Seven wasn't truly immune, why wasn't she put asleep? Why was the Doc so sure that igniting anti-matter would give the beast indigestion? And BTW, you don't need to (probably can't) ignite anti-matter, just place it in contact with matter. Final nit: Seven can bypass Janeway's security lockouts by just pulling a single chip? Jeez. And the upshot of the episode is: The Doctor got the beast to vomit Voyager up? Does this make Voyager a Jonah? Bliss is one stupid title. The other actors must have hated this eps. Having to act like drugged-out Stepford wives for the entire ep. Notes: Looked like a different actress playing T'Pel than in Persistence of Vision. Conclusion: Uninspiring idea: Seven saves the ship. Did Naomi serve any purpose at all except to tire Seven by wanting to be carrying everywhere? The show had a interesting moody feel but the AATE (Another Abrupt Trek Ending) was bad way to end the show. Not bad but ordinary, by-the-numbers, one-person-saves-the-ship fodder. At least, Naomi didn't save it. AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH I don't believe it!!! I don't believe it!!! I DON'T F(BLEEP)ING BELIEVE IT!!! What? ST TPTB have not learnt their lessons? Like there is not enough "Kill Wesley" sites on the internet? Like there isn't enough jokes about it!! Now we have a female "Wesley" wanna be. They have just put a ding in this season. Will someone please tell me why a kid would want to go to Seven of Nine instead of their mother when they are in danger of dying? Or even Neelix. Now there's a face that would scare a child into submission. Why will she defy Chakotay (OK, OK, leave the wise cracks out for once) who is second in command to follow a woman who two months ago scared the s(bleep) out of her? And all that ship knowledge. Where in the name of common sense did she learn to do those kinds of things? And her mother let her go on an away mission in a shuttle with Tom Paris at the helm?(No offense people but according to Jules he must have been responsible for about 10 shuttle injuries which is a lot more than Chak!!!). I think that 24th Century Children's services should hear about this!!! I know I should be grateful that at least she didn't save the ship single handedly, but she came awfully close. And quite frankly I found that she was just annoying at times. For a minute there I thought that this episode could be saved by at least observing some of what the crew desires and what would be their reactions to realizing that they had been duped in that manner. But the only contribution that we got to continuity was B'Elanna wishing that her Marquis friends were not dead, (There was so much they could have done with that!!!Oye Oye Oye!!!)and the stupid blue "Flotter" doll that Naomi was carrying at first. Quite frankly it was stupid and ridiculous and it brought us right back to a time when TNG was almost cancelled for doing this type of bu(Beep). There is no need to guess. Stupid plot, Naomi who should have been passed out like the rest of the people. (I can understand why you weren't able to tap into Seven desires; she doesn't have any, but a little child. Come on what kind of alien are you.)and just plain ole boring acting on the part of alien, Ryan and Naomi. I was just angry and frustrated at the whole thing. This one was even worst that "Once upon a time". It is absolutely the worst thing that I have ever seen during the season and I think that Darkling is one step up from it!!! Next week the Borg return!!!(Here we go a flip(bleep)ing again!!) Tell us what you really think, Leonie. ; ) For the most part I agree. There were parts in this is did find some redemption--Tom and Naomi, (did you say it, Carol?)--you know RDM's got kids. He was great with SP, totally endearing. I did love that scene. He seemed no natural carrying a sleepy girl and whispering not to wake her up. Very sweet. Hmmm, actually, I have to think to remember the rest of what I liked. What I keep thinking about is how it might have been. Dang right, they really dropped the ball on those "wishes." When it started, I was sooo waiting for it. Sadly, so. Tuvok and T'Pel was the only one that worked for me. It could have gone all around, been really interesting to examine from everybody's perspective. They could have let us see that gradual state coming on them...It could have, it could have, it could have.....B'Elanna wanting her Maquis friends alive again--Waah!--why? why? Leonie, you hit the mark there! So much potential wasted! Seven saves the ship. Again. Okay, I was ready for that one. But I was wondering why in the world Naomi wasn't affected either and what caused the delayed affect in Seven (Terry's argument applies here). The codes and protocol she slips so easily by? Uh--what?! Chakotay in the corridor taking Seven was just plain annoyingly bad. (Sorry Leonie, but "resistance is futile" grated me to no end.) Tom in sickbay was far more believable, but ugh! what predictable desires! (Even if I wouldn't mind him getting such a job upon getting home.) B'Elanna's hair is yet another shade lighter--it's almost my color now (are they going to choose a wig for the poor girl sometime?). Worse, I smudged my nail polish when I saw the Flutter doll and the Ahab dude on first hearing made me choke on my tea. Nit, nit, nit... Doc's one-liners were good (albeit too many), and I know there were a couple more bits and pieces I got something out of, but the ep as a whole was poorly organized, nobody was into it, there was no tension and the focus was way off. At the end of the season go on my --"God, it had such potential but really drove me to distraction" list. Next week, the Seven movie. sigh. Okay. I'll watch it. At least Kate looks intriguingly Mama. I can handle that, at least. Leonie? Did you watch the same episode? What? ST TPTB have not learnt their lessons? Like there is not enough "Kill Wesley" sites on the internet? Like there isn't enough jokes about it!! Now we have a female "Wesley" wanna be. *How do you figure that? Not only is Naomi a better actor then Wes but she is also a little kid not a annoying genius that is smarter then the Captain. Will someone please tell me why a kid would want to go to Seven of Nine instead of their mother when they are in danger of dying? *Why would she go to mom when mom was drooling on the floor? Besides even before then Naomi said mom was acting strangely. Seven also happens to be her friend. Why will she defy Chakotay (OK, OK, leave the wise cracks out for once) who is second in command to follow a woman who two months ago scared the s(bleep) out of her? *Whoops! Missed a plot pint there Leonie! Naomi knew that the crew was all wacky but her, Seven and the HoloDoc. Besides she is a smart girl, she knows Chucky is a pushover for redheads. And all that ship knowledge. Where in the name of common sense did she learn to do those kinds of things? *Voyager IS her home. And her mother let her go on an away mission in a shuttle with Tom Paris at the helm?(No offense people but according to Jules he must have been responsible for about 10 shuttle injuries which is a lot more than Chak!!!). *It was a field trip in the DF with two excellent Officers,one who is her friend. Besides, it was probably a vacation for mom also. For a minute there I thought that this episode could be saved by at least observing some of what the crew desires and what would be their reactions to realizing that they had been duped in that manner. But the only contribution that we got to continuity was B'Elanna wishing that her Marquis friends were not dead, (There was so much they could have done with that!!!Oye Oye Oye!!!)and the stupid blue "Flotter" doll that Naomi was carrying at first. *What was wrong with B'Elanna's dream? Kids play with dolls. There is no need to guess. Stupid plot, Naomi who should have been passed out like the rest of the people. (I can understand why you weren't able to tap into Seven desires; she doesn't have any, but a little child. Come on what kind of alien are you.)and just plain ole boring acting on the part of alien, Ryan and Naomi. I was just angry and frustrated at the whole thing. *Come ON! This stupid Seven bashing is starting to annoy me! Ryan acting was superb! This season she is the best thing on Voyager. This one was even worst that "Once upon a time". It is absolutely the worst thing that I have ever seen during the season and I think that Darkling is one step up from it!!! *Well yes, darkling was better but that is because Kes was in it :-) next week the Borg return!!! *Yep! All Seven all the time babyyyy!! Eric, I like Jeri's acting but her scripts are starting to stink. I can't explain it but last year it seemed liked she got good roles in most of the good or interesting scripts: The Gift, Year of Hell, Prey, One, Hope and Fear, The Killing Game. But this season, she has gotten roles in weak or clunky eps like Latent Image and Bliss. Eps which seem rather pointless and derivative. She came off well but the eps didn't. Actually, most of the really good roles have gone to the old cast. Seven has become more like Tuvok: better in support than in the lead. Yes I did! Eric's comments are in asterisks *How do you figure that? Not only is Naomi a better actor then Wes but she is also a little kid not an annoying genius that is smarter then the Captain*. I will grant you that SP is a better actress, and that she is a little kid, but with the way that she's starting out you can see that she's heading in that direction. She insists on piloting the shuttle, that's kid's curiosity, I'll grant you that. Tom shows her how to push two controls, and she figures out the next two for herself. How?! Who taught her that!!! *Why would she go to mom when mom was drooling on the floor? Besides even before then Naomi said mom was acting strangely. Seven also happens to be her friend* Neelix was drooling on the floor and she lingered at his body!!! *It was a field trip in the DF with two excellent Officers, one who is her friend. Besides, it was probably a vacation for mom also* Two excellent officers yes!, but in an uncharted part of space, filled with unknown unseen danger, after here mother had almost perished on another "routine" mission just months before. I don't think so. I know that my child would not be on any shuttle even if Janeway was piloting it, without me!!! *What was wrong with B'Ellana's dream? Kids play with dolls* My point was that those were the only two parts of the show that made it worth watching continuity wise. We know that B'Elanna is still coming to terms with the events of "Extreme Risk" and we also know that I hate that stupid Flotter doll, the Barney of the 24th century. It's a shame that they couldn't have gone into the former scenario a little more than focus the whole show on Naomi's nagging questions. *Whoops! Missed a plot point there Leonie! Naomi knew that the crew was all wacky but her, Seven and the HoloDoc. Besides she is a smart girl, she knows Chucky is a pushover for redheads*. *Come ON! This stupid Seven bashing is starting to annoy me! Ryan acting was superb! This season she is the best thing on Voyager* Right like it's any different from the Chakotay Bashing that annoys me too. The difference is, I know when the truth is presented to me. I think that Chakotay's bod and the promise of Chakotay's character is the most appealing thing to me in Voyager. But the truth is that Beltran is an inferior actor to people like McNeill, Mulgrew and Dawson and I'm the first to admit it. There are episodes when he's damn good acting wise and there are episodes when he is weak. I know how to call them when I see them. The same is true for Ryan. Acting out her character is hard, I'll grant you that, but Ryan is not a first rate actress, she is a good one but in the company of Mulgrew, Dawson on Voyager, she is way out of her league!!. If Infinite Regress is any indication of her range, well it's just not good enough. Ryan's best acting in an episode as far as I am concerned was One. She has never topped that in episodes to follow (certainly not this one). As for her character on the show. If she were to go out in a blaze of glory next season and Kes brought back, a lot of people would think nothing of it and that is the truth, because when you get down to it, Lien was a Hell of a better actress than Ryan. Next week the Borg return!!! *Yep! All Seven all the time babyyyy!!* Leaving out the ASATT phenomena, I think that the Borg is being used as a writer's crutch and I'm tired of it. They do have a legitimate question yes; would Seven return to the Collective if she had a chance too. But after this, voyager should not encounter the Borg again. The AQ lost how many hundreds of ships going up against the Borg in two encounters. Voyager has encountered them three times and has walked away without a scratch every time!!! Even the Hirogen did more damage. All aboard for the "Suspension of Belief" Express (thanks Gin) I've had enough Good points, Leonie. I'm with you. (NIM) There is Bashing, and there is BASHING I will be the first to admit that I will chew out Janeway and her merry crew when they fail to live up to what I KNOW they can do. I pick on Mulgrew because I KNOW she can do better, she has and she can do it again. Season Five is proof of this. But what I was referring to is this nasty almost completely FEMALE based bashing that has gone on here lately. And since Andy has left to take care of his new family member it's up to yours truly to give a little back to the sender! But I do it with the solemn dignity that my post demands :-) I'm lost.... I haven't been on 24/7 for a long while. What completely female based bashing? What are you talking about? Are you saying that I'm bashing Seven on the basis of the fact that she is female on Voyager? Not true, I think that Dawson and Mulgrew are fine actresses and they are female. Are you saying that I'm bashing Seven because of what she wears on the show? Where as I've practically screamed from the high heavens that I'm sick of seeing her Ts and A in my face every week I've never said that she was a terrible actress because of it and I've given her credit for one episode that I've enjoyed immensely. Are you saying that I'm bashing Seven because I don't like her character on the show? I really don't care for her character one way or the other, quite frankly I'm more interested in other characters on the show and that is my privilege. Are you saying that most of the people who bash seven on the board are women? Of course they are. It's no secret that we can see things a lot more clearly than men can because we are not unduly influenced by the same things. :-P But in all fairness there are some CN men who don't care about Seven one way or another and have bashed her when they thought it was appropriate. And as for being NASTY!?! The times when I am Nasty I always sign off with "Looking for a Saucer of milk" I know when I'm doing it. This rant was not really about Seven in as much as it was about Naomi and Seven and just an all around bad plot, Eric, I'm good but I'll tip my hat too you, You've said some things about Chak that have left my Seven catty remarks in the dust!!! In all fairness, Leonie... Neelix was not drooling on the floor--he was unconscious on the floor. And it makes perfect sense to me that the sight would upset Naomi that much. I'm also fairly certain that, if she had stumbled across her mother lying unconscious on the floor, she would have had a similar reaction--to the point that she might not have been willing to leave her and go with Seven. And why shouldn't Naomi get to go on a field trip with Tom and Seven? All they were doing was scouting for deuterium, which sounds harmless enough. Frankly, I'm glad that Naomi is getting some basic instruction in ship's systems. At the rate that Voyager is progressing through the DQ, it's going to be up to her and Vorick to pilot the ship back to Earth. All right Ginny, I'll give a little... If I were the only child on Voyager, I might get a little cooped up too and might insist on going and not give my mother peace until I get to go. You're right, she should learn ship's systems. My argument is that it's a little too much too soon and I'm in preventative "Wesley" maintenance mode. I am a little appalled by the amount of screen time that is given to this child when there members of the regular cast with names in the credits who are given virtually nothing to do or say. Neelix drooling on the floor. After Eric's quote about Wildman drooling on the floor. ...And what about Naomi...? I actually enjoyed this ep and only had a few of the same problems that appears to be bothering some of the folks that post here. I for one do not find Naomi as ingratiating as Wesley, she's hardly a "wunderkind" she's just ambitious, and that is a good quality in children, last time I checked at least. As far as countermanding orders from Chak, well, we already determined that "all other humans" including Mom were acting weird. I don't feel she was really scared sh**less by Seven, she was just intimidated by her, and then once she "learned" of Sevens "abilities" glommed on to her much like that kid in TNG, who was at first intimidated by Data, and then tried to emulate him. Thank TPTB that we have it the other way around. As a child if my mom was acting weird, and a respected adult, who also had my admiration, and best intentions in mind, I would probably heed her advice or at least consider it. It's not like mom ever intervened and said "Stay away from that Borg B***h" As far as countermanding Chak goes, he was just another "Human" acting weird, at least Seven appeared to have her safety in mind. My problem is the way Vulcans are being portrayed on Trek right now. First we have Tuvok fall under this spell ( This must be a really powerful alien to be able to get to a Vulcan's fantasy) then we have DS9 "dissing" Vulcans again! I AM NOT PLEASED! back to voy, I really like the "Alien of the week" I fell in love w/ this curmudgeon the instant he was on the screen. Too bad Janeway didn't have any scenes w/ him...I would've loved seeing Picard w/ this Character too. I found it odd that he backed down from blowing the alien ski-high so quickly. a longer ep probably would've had him accessing the arsenal against the Doc's altruism a man of his caliber would not seem to back down quickly. They set up a good disparity from the beginning of their interactions he asking for the arsenal and the doc saying he saves lives not kills them. then I thought it was quite patient of him to allow the doc to fail with the cortical inhibitor, it was as if he knew that the doc would never believe him anyway. His line "Smart enough to convince your crew to take you offline" and the doc's rebuttal "no need to get personal" was priceless.. I found Sevens interactions w/ Naomi surprisingly protective and caring. The dynamic between Seven and Tom was enlightening too, do we perhaps have a small ensemble growing here...Fodder for a future confrontation between B'Elanna and Seven perhaps. I was glad that it wasn't a total Seven as "Ubermensch" ep as I can hear you all complaining already...it really was a combined Doc, Naomi, Seven, and our lovely alien, who sadly will probably never grace our tv sets again. Alien as Ahab, I liked it at least anyway...even if it had a classic YAATE quality about it...They could've made more with the "bliss" and it's narcotic affect on the crew...Even a little de-briefing time or De-tox if you prefer... ALL RIGHT BERN!!! I not alone here! Sniff! Thanks Man! You can even have my Budd Lite :-D Ahab and the monster. Bern wrote: I found it odd that he [the AOTW] backed down from blowing the alien ski-high so quickly. a longer ep probably would've had him accessing the arsenal against the Doc's altruism a man of his caliber would not seem to back down quickly. I agree, Bern. In fact, in the last scene where we saw him back in his ship flying toward the entity, I was absolutely convinced that we were about to discover that he had somehow managed to secretly transfer one of those mega-photon torpedoes over to his ship and was going back to kill the beast. Leonie, I think it's a matter of perspective... ...and taste. Some people don't want a kid on Voyager, or they don't care for Seven, so I can understand why they wouldn't like this episode. I personally don't find Naomi annoying, or a miniature Wesley. I certainly did have a problem with the fact that Naomi didn't go to her mother or at least voice her concern about whether mom was okay. However, I think Naomi otherwise acts like a normal child would in abnormal circumstances. Drawing on other episodes, we've seen her try to establish a life for herself. She doesn't have dad, but has found a father substitute for herself in Neelix. One might question her choice, but she was able to get what she needed. We have also seen her begin to make friends with Seven. When all hell breaks loose, it's Seven who acts authoritatively. Why wouldn't Naomi, who is a very smart little girl (but hardly a Wesley-like genius), gravitate to the one person who seems to know what's going on and is acting decisively. Kids respond to authority, and if there's one quality Seven possesses in spades, it's authority. Besides, Naomi already figured out that everyone else was acting strangely. Chakotay may not be a stranger to Naomi, but as far as I can recall, the two haven't really interacted, so why would she follow orders from him, rather than an adult whom she considered her friend, and therefore trustworthy. For me, Naomi adds a nice human touch to the show that's been missing since Kes's departure. I wouldn't want to see her in every episode, and I certainly don't want to see her develop into some Wesley Wunderkind wannabe. But in small, regular doses, she can remind us that life moves forward on Voyager, that people are becoming family and community. If well written, an episode with her in it could illuminate other characters. We see a nice bit of character development for Seven in this episode. The scene in which Naomi reaches out to Seven to be picked up--that's what a kid would do, and it was a touching moment, as well as one that challenged Seven's own undeveloped sense of nurturing. I'm not denying that some real plot and logic problems exist in this episode. I think everyone here recognizes that. However, whether those problems were irritations that didn't detract too much from your basic enjoyment of the show, or whether they drove you crazy, depends on your personal tastes and perspective. You're right, Marie And, BTW, it's nice to have you drop in. Marie wrote: I'm not denying that some real plot and logic problems exist in this episode. I think everyone here recognizes that. However, whether those problems were irritations that didn't detract too much from your basic enjoyment of the show, or whether they drove you crazy, depends on your personal tastes and perspective. I have found myself on both sides of this fence. With Bliss, for example, I admit that many of the complaints posted here are valid - but I enjoyed the episode anyway. There have been other episodes, though, where I have found myself saying, "Sorry, folks, I know you liked this episode, but I just couldn't get past that huge hole in the plot, which ruined the whole thing for me." Blistered, battered, bruised. This episode was an absolute mess. I couldn't even get in to it from the beginning. I'm trying to give this episode a reprieve, to say that it had potential or an interesting idea behind it, but I can't even do that. Again, we see an episode where a possibility to return home is treated in an anti-climactic manner. In "Hope and Fear" and this episode the chance was not a wondrous event but a fact of life, a nice convenience but there was no real indication that it shook things up on Voyager. If this is how exciting Voyager's real return will be, count me out. About the only thing about this episode that was worth my time were the updates on what's going on inside the heads of all those little people on the ship. In that regard, some throw away lines are interesting: --Janeway is still clearly yearning for Mark. (Although in "Hunters" he was already married not engaged) Naomi was not great in this episode. I didn't care for the way she was written or much for her performance either. (But there's only so many "scared expression" scenes one can do before even a child actor starts balking) Naomi doesn't want to see her father? No thanks. There were plenty of other little things that I disliked too, allow me to paraphrase just a few. Paris at the beginning of the show: This was an episode where we should have seen Samantha Wildman. I doubt we'll see her again this season, but it's getting to be a tad implausible how she treats the Voyager crew and Astrometrics as babysitting. Another line which I didn't like was Seven's inexplicable line where she tells Janeway that the Doctor will explain what's been going on. Allow me to paraphrase again: Janeway; "Seven, what's going on?" What is that??? This episode was bizarre. Robert J. Doherty has written "Vis a Vis", one of, if not the worst episode of last year, the fair "Infinite Regress" and now this which is in my books the worst episode of this year. And he's here to stay. He's now listed as an "Assistant to the Producers" in the credits. I hope he gets better. The main cast didn't look happy with the episode at all. To say they phoned their performances in gives them too much credit, I'd say the performances were telegraphed. And I don't blame them. Even Jeri Ryan did not seem excited with the script. Usually she makes the material more her own. I think that she was just biding her time for "Dark Frontier". Morgan Sheppard's character was fun, but definitely to say that he's a poor man's Ahab is an understatement. I didn't get the ending where he's heading back... was he simply hunting it or did the beast have him again? Like I said, I didn't get it ---or wait-- maybe I just didn't care. In short, "disaster" is an apt description, someone chain Robert Doherty away from the keyboard. This bozo is part of the writing staff? I didn't realize that Bliss was written by the same guy as Vis À Vis and Infinite Regress. Yuck! Just when I thought the new staff with Michael Taylor and Nick Sagan was looking pretty darn good. This guy is 0-3. bern -- 11 Feb 1999, 12:02 AM Vis a vis was pretty bad, Terry, but, I liked "Infinite Regress" so I would go 2 for 3...I actually enjoyed "Bliss" not overwhelmingly, but good... I liked "Chaotica" too, but not nearly as much as everyone else seems to. Sooo I have my fingers crossed for "Dark Frontier" "Insurrection" was a little bit of a let down from "First Contact" and seeing as it will be 3 more years until we get another full length. Let's hope they Just didn't take Outtakes from "FC" like they have done in the past w/ "ST6" in season 2...we all know Voyager deserves better... I LOVED this episode! It was the same kind of fresh air BOC was without being a comedy. NO emotional problems, NO depression AND it was a Seven episode, and even better it was a GOOD Seven episode. How did I love Bliss? Let me count the ways : The GOOD : Foundation Imaging!! Is there ANYTHING these guys can't do with a TV budget? They deserve a Emmy this year! Jeri Ryan : Still the best actor on the show. And she wore the blue suit bless her Borg heart. Seven wasting the entire Engineering crew!!! I don't know why but I got a cheap (but very real) thrill seeing that. Poor D'Alaire, B'Elanna got tossed into a wall :-D AOTW Ahab : I don't know who this guy was but I liked him! The Bad : Why would Tuvok succumb to EMOTIONAL messages? We just saw last week how he learned to control them! One nit, but I forgive it cuz it was so dang good :-) bern -- 11 Feb 1999, 12:42 AM E In some ways I liked this better than BOC, I am sure this won't curry any favor w/ the P/Ters or the J/Cers either...but I found it refreshing NOT to have any B'Elanna/Tom scenes or Chakotay telling Janeway how he not only has her interest but, the crews interest at heart... I am actually looking forward to any "Naomi" story arcs...something I probably would not have said if it were not for this ep. I like Tom a lot better when he's not w/ B'Elanna...I think he and seven and Naomi need to hang out more! He was great at mediating between Naomi's childlike desires and Seven's adult responsibility... Even Neelix was cute in the way he dealt w/ Seven's letter from home... In my perfect world...Tuvok would never have succumbed...I would have stuck him on an away mission, at least we saw his beautiful wife though... Me and Bern stand firm (against the rest of the Nebula!) Yeah, that Tuvok succumbing to the Space Worm kinda bothered me. Since it was VERY firmly established that the critter uses EMOTIONS to manipulate it's prey. But ya know what? When the curtain fell I didn't care! This episode was a fun ride. It was just a nice roller coaster ride, it wasn't SUPPOSED to be deep and meaningful and that is just fine with me. Eric, do you have Goosebumps about next week's "movie"? I wasn't bowled over by Bliss but I enjoyed it. I almost always enjoy a Seven episode (don't hate us because we like her!) And I didn't even mind Naomi even though I usually can't stand the children on television. My favorite ep so far this year was the time travel one. The other episodes have faded out fast, and I even missed a couple. But next week looks exciting. Even though I gripe about the overuse of the Borg when it's sweeps time and about how the Borg have turned into puppies, I'm still a sucker for a Borg/Seven episode. This season I like Seven and Tom. I don't like my other favorite, the Holodoc, as much because even though he does get the zippy one-liners, he's capable and deserving of much more than that on a regular basis. TPTB have turned into comic sidekick - blehhh! And I don't like Janeway anymore. She's a bore, and Mulgrew is looking like a tired shell of her former self. Maybe she DOES need a break. Sigh. I hope next week's episode is good, I hope so, I hope so, Oh please! Imperfect Bliss, Eric, but-- Okay, this episode had quite a number of plot holes. The one that bothered me the most centered on Naomi's reaction--or lack thereof--to the danger her mother was in. Let's see, I'm Naomi. I walk out into the ships' corridors and see all these bodies strewn around. What would I do? I would panic and run like crazy to find my mom, that's what. Neelix and Seven might be my friends, but they would come a very distant second to my mother. Why don't we at hear Naomi at least express concern about her? Even one line would have made it more plausible. Despite this, and the various other holes in plot and logic, I did enjoy this episode. Why? Seven of Nine and, to a lesser extent, Tom Paris. I still maintain that Seven/Jeri Ryan is the best thing that's ever happened to Voyager. Ryan's acting is both understated and expressive. She can communicate a lot with few or no words. She's so much fun to watch (okay, Eric, I know why *you* like to watch her). RDM's demotion to ensign is a good thing, as far as I can tell. Tom has had much better storylines this season. He and Seven have a natural chemistry and his easy interaction with Naomi--well, you can just tell that RDM is a dad. I'd like to see TPTB do something with that. RDM is at his best when he's playful and kind. Friendships with Naomi and Seven could illuminate those qualities. Eric, dear, if you think you're blissful now, you're probably going to be totally blissed out next week when you see two hours of Seven, and three gals--Seven, Borg Queen, and Janeway--slugging it out, guns drawn. What more can you ask of life, or Paramount, hm? :-) Kept waiting to get swept along, too but didn't. I have s stupid question. If a wormhole was found, would the sensors be able to get such clear data from the other side? Wasn't it fishy that the wormhole would land them so close to earth? or the sensors showing Earth. Boy that creature was very busy making sure everyone on board had their hearts' desire. Even stoic Tuvok got taken in. And how could the doctor tell how old the creature was? Actually it did seen plausible that Naomi would not look forward to get back to the AQ. Voyager is the only place she knows. Meeting her father would be scary. I agree we should have seen Samantha in this episode with her. What I liked most was - the Doctor's remarks about being a "renaissance EMH." Not so stupid a question, actually... I felt that the crew lured in by the narcotic effect the alien was projecting suspended their judgement...All of the telemetry, and the letters from home were just moving too quickly for any rational person to believe in... More should have been made with this...and as everyone else has said the crews desires...Maybe Tuvok could've wandered around naked in his sleep again (g) Arrr!Jim Boy! I enjoyed this one, although the Ahab parallel was maybe a little silly.I for one am happy that the writers at Voyager are at least taking some time to write out some intriguing stories this season. (as opposed to this seasons DS9) I think Id really be unhappy if Voyager got back to the Alpha quadrant too soon,because its just this "unknown" parallel to TOS which is keeping Voyager fresh (expect of course for TacoBorg) Did anyone wonder how Naomi got out of the cargo bay? I was under the impression that she was behind a forcefield,maybe she possesses some secret power we don't know about. I wish there had been more time to go into the hallucinations the rest of the crew were suffering, that would have been really interesting,seeing exactly what they all experienced.I know from reading other posts here that I'm not as qualified as many others to "pick apart" each individual episode, so I wont even try,just know I enjoyed this one although there was nothing really special about it. I am getting psyched for next week though. All right! Cross that line and stand with me and Bern, Ted! Not every episode has to be Shakespeare :-) I just knew Eric would like this one... There were so *many* sequences of Seven striding down the corridors. I too wish that there was some explanation of why Seven and Naomi were the only 'biologics' not affected. You ask yourself what they have in common, and Naomi is a child and Seven is at least 'childlike' in some respects, so that might have something to do with it. But I can't quite accept the notion that children are more resistant to illusions and wishful thinking than adults are. As for the Alien of the Week, yeah, he was pretty cool. It was pretty cool when Robert Shaw did the role in Jaws, and it's still cool today... Common factors My first thought on reading this thread was: the ones who're immune have childlike qualities? Then why's Tom not immune then? My second thought was: the ones who're immune don't want to go "home" to the Alpha Quadrant? Then why's Tom not...? But I digress. :-) I guess that the quality in question could be the sort of attention span that refuses to be diverted that makes kids persist in saying "why?" until you have no good answers left or you've explained life, the universe and everything to them, or that makes them able to see through the trick behind a stage magician's illusions because they're watching what's really going on rather than the psychological tricks to make them look the other way. A kind of persistent rather than biddable attention. Of course, I'm still just shooting in the dark here since I haven't seen the episode yet. However, I'm sure Eric loved those corridor shots... Well I guess we had to have one,... ...and this was it. I have to admit that I wasn't looking forward to this episode, so I had a preconceived idea already. The promos didn't entice me at all. Janeway was skeptical at first, and then fell under the spell of the space creature, by giving everyone everything that they had ever hoped for in life. I could see why they called it Bliss. I could almost make the claim that it is following the premise set this season. Everyone has been depressed, so why not have your fondest fantasies come true. In fact Tom's stunt in Thirty Days could be seen as an act of desperation, and a need to be noticed that he felt he wasn't receiving. I wasn't surprised that Chakotay said he got an offer to be a professor of Anthropology. It is an appropriate job for Chakotay. Gee Wiz how easy is it to by pass the captains lockout, just remove one little data storage device. I did like the EMH's line "I'm a doctor not a dragonslayer". Unlike anyone else on this board I count the number of times the doctor says "Do no harm." So far he has said it twice this year. I look forward to it. I like little Naomi, to me she is realistic, and is actually good at what she does. Well we know that 7 still doesn't look forward to going back to Earth, she didn't fall for the enticement. She did when she thought that they had left the creature. I admired the fact that she didn't argue with either the AOTW, or the holodoc about it, and released the antimatter. A year ago she would have argued with anyone. I guess she has gained some individuality, and has learned to work with others to a degree, that's a plus. This episode is the worst I have seen this season. Bliss? Bliss is what I feel after I get into bed after a long day. First reaction: Gee, it certainly is a novel idea to make Seven the only character impervious to the affects of an alien's mad scheme other than the doctor! Gee, it certainly is a novel idea to have Seven save the ship! [Insert picture of SuperBorg here] How many times does TPTB have to read All Seven All The Time before they realize that we're not saying that to encourage them to develop repetitively themed episodes just to have her lithe body in every shot? Thoughts:
Ring bell...drool. Ring bell...drool... Sometimes, I wonder if they think it's that's simple. As for our conditioning them... You (Mrs. Mac.) wrote... Obviously the stimuli many of us have offered has not produced the desired result. I suggest Skinnerian shocks next time around. ZAAAAAAAAAAAAP! (sigh) I wish. 'Bliss' it wasn't. I'm with you, Mrs. Mac... ...it's days like these I wish I had more time to post all I have to say, cause believe me, I have A LOT to say about this one. I haven't had a chance to read all the comments on 'Bliss' yet, but I'm happy to see so many posters so far felt the same way my wife and me did. Mrs. Mac hit many of the points I wanted to make :^). More later, but for now let me just say that the single most irritating scene for me was near the end when the crew comes back to their senses and *Captain* Janeway asks Seven what had happened. Seven curtly replies something like "I'm tired, ask the holo doc and you can read my report later". Janeway simply accepts that from her without comment. Okay, I know Seven has a right to be tired after saving the "helpless" crew from destruction yet again, but Geesh *Kate* is the captain not her. She could have given at least a five minute summary before her beauty rest took precedence. Could you imagine Kirk, Picard or Sisko treated that way without question? I can't. I figured the Whippersnapper (Eric) would love this episode and take offense to any criticism of it :^). I knew Eric was going to love it the minute Seven picked up that compression phaser rifle. No offense, Eric, it's just that any Seven episode is a great Voyager episode to you. I admit, I'm probably the same way about Janeway episodes in general, but there are many Janeway eps I didn't like. If you think this is Seven bashing, than imagine what we Janeway fans go through. The truth is I do like Seven, I just don't like to see the rest of the crew being saved by her so often. It's wearing very thin now and makes the rest of the crew look like incompetents. Just once couldn't it have been B'Elanna or someone else's turn. The AOTW was very good, and I don't mean the giant starship eater :^). Am I the only one that thought he reminded them of a Klingon, especially his attitude and his hair? Very colorful actor, he reminded me of my favorite secondary Trek character, General Martok on DS9. Ignorance is BLISS, and BLISS was... ...pretty darn entertaining. (Fooled ya, didn't I?) Stand by, Eric and Bern--I may need some cavalry support. I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. And then I watched it again, and I still enjoyed it. I saw a number of holes/nitpicks/moments to willingly suspend belief, but I was still entertained for the entire hour. Let's do it by the numbers. GRIPES --First nit: If the creature was using telepathy, then the telemetry and the letters and everything else were just illusions. Why, then, was Seven, who was supposedly immune to the creature's influence, able to see the PADDs containing the letters. They weren't actually there, were they? --Second nit: I thought Qatai's ship was about to implode when Seven persuades him to beam over to Voyager, but it seems fine when they need it later. Did she reinforce the shields and just not tell us about it? --Has Dawson pissed off somebody important, because she's barely been visible lately. Although she does have new hair. --Beltran gets as close to Ryan as he can, doesn't he? And he just can't keep his eyes off her chest. GRATIFYING BITS --The pacing was good, the effects were good, and I liked the fact that Seven wasn't *totally* immune to the creature at the end--she was just not swept up in the more widely held illusion at the beginning. --Well, someone amongst TPTB has obviously decided to give me my Christmas present early, because Tom is just everywhere this season. I loved him with Naomi and Seven in the shuttlecraft, with Naomi and Seven in the corridor, with Seven in the Mess Hall (Has anyone else noticed that it's always Tom who's eating?), with Seven in Sick Bay. And didn't the three of them make just the most unexpected and attractive little family group as they were walking down the corridor? If I had any faith in the writers at all, I'd be tempted to call this foreshadowing. And then they gilded the lily! Kathryn actually leans on Tom at the helm...and lays her hand on his shoulder. Oh. My. Gosh. It's a Season Three Kodak moment. --I also liked the guest AOTW. Crusty and practical and obsessive--all in one poorly made-up package. (The latex looked like it was ready to slide off.) I thought his interaction was good with Seven and excellent with the Holodoc. And when he looked at Seven, with a soft baby spot flattering her face, and said, "You look real enough.", I shook my head, snorted softly, and thought, "Doherty, you dog." --Lots of other noteworthy lines: Tom: "Just Cardassians, Romulans, and Ferengi." Oh my! --Wasn't T'Pel pretty? And I think it was a different actress than the one in PERSISTENCE OF VISION, although I'm not sure. --2000 seemed to be this wormhole's featured number: Other numbers of significance--the 47's I felt a collective Tomaholic, "awwwww" Ginny, when I saw Tom carrying Naomi down the corridor. He just looked so sweet. And I would have called you when I saw Kathryn put her hand on Tom's shoulder but I figured you wouldn't pick up the phone. Unfortunately, those are about the only two moments of the show I have seen so far, so I'll add my comments later. Were we watching this together? -Second nit: I thought Qatai's ship was about to implode when Seven persuades him to beam over to Voyager, but it seems fine when they need it later. Did she reinforce the shields and just not tell us about it? I thought that he only had about 15 minutes of shields left when she gets him to beam over. How did that ship last 39 years though? --Has Dawson pissed off somebody important, because she's barely been visible lately. Although she does have new hair. When RB was in Sick Bay, Barty noticed that her hair was lighter. --Beltran gets as close to Ryan as he can, doesn't he? And he just can't keep his eyes off her chest. See!? I toldja! They both get in each others' personal space. (Well, Jeri's breasts kind of overlap into everyone's personal space). She gets right up on Beltran. I'm tellin' ya, there's chemistry! And then they gilded the lily! Kathryn actually leans on Tom at the helm...and lays her hand on his shoulder. Oh. My. Gosh. It's a Season Three Kodak moment. I thought of you at that moment. --Wasn't T'Pel pretty? And I think it was a different actress than the one in PERSISTENCE OF VISION I didn't think it was the same actress, but both are very pretty. And I just think Tim Russ is awesome. Tom is just everywhere this season. I loved him with Naomi and Seven in the shuttlecraft, with Naomi and Seven in the corridor, with Seven in the Mess Hall. And didn't the three of them make just the most unexpected and attractive little family group as they were walking down the corridor? Seven: "Naomi Wildman." Everytime she said it, it cracked me up. I do like Seven's interaction with Naomi. Jeri conveys Seven's amusement with Naomi very well even though she doesn't actually smile. HOWEVER, I don't want to see much more of Naomi. I love kids, but not on Voyager, not as a main recurring character anyway. And, btw, even though I make snide remarks about Seven, I do think Jeri Ryan does a great job with the character. About Tom being everywhere (except here, where I'd like him); he's better playing off someone else or being involved in the storyline. Shows they write for RDM just aren't that interesting. Even Thirty Days was kind of blah to me. Accept our BLISS, resistance is futile!!! Ginny, Seven said she would be able to strengthen the Ahab's shields. I'm glad that I'm not alone on this eppy! Lizard babies! They can keep those "Threshold" references coming as long as they like, so far as I'm concerned. And Braga's interesting little episode does seem to be getting a number of name checks this season. Hmm. You don't think they're building it up to be an in-joke in the way that the "47" references are, do you? I have to confess that the basic premise of this episode, as gleaned from the spoilers, didn't enthrall me overmuch. But then, that's been true of about 90% of the episodes this season, and they've generally proven to be rather better in the execution than in the idea as a one paragraph sound byte. (As opposed to the season four spoilers, which I often thought promised rather more than they delivered. Go figure.) It sounds like the same may well hold true of this one as well - it certainly sounds more interesting and varied in the light of the little snippets I've read about it. I kept reading negative assessments of the episode and thinking: "But I like the sound of that bit!" I look forward to seeing it and making up my own mind, and with slightly less trepidation than I did yesterday. :-) However, I still think the idiot who scheduled this episode back to back with "Dark Frontier" should be shot. Mix the season up a bit more, will you? Space out the cast's various spotlight episodes over the entire season rather than group them together. Although... I suppose there's always the chance that there might be a shock ending to "Dark Frontier"... where instead of Seven saving the ship, someone else has to save Seven. If so, I guess it's most likely to be Janeway and Betsy, but then again you did observe that Tom is everywhere this season... Even if it is a bit soon for him to do the dramatic, world shaking, save the ship, the crew, and earn Janeway's undying gratitude bit. I wouldn't want to see him get that second pip back too soon or too easily, after all. Where's the Tommy angst in that? (Fingers in Ears) I can't hear you!! I started reading the Bliss discussion but decided to stop and post my comments before my opinion became completely tainted by the truth. In fact, I agree with pretty much every one of the criticisms that I have read so far. However, none of those nit-picks, blatant inconsistencies or gaping plot holes interfered for one moment with my enjoyment of the episode. I thought the little glimpses of the crews' fantasies were very interesting and, in some cases, quite revealing. Am I the only one who thought the scene with Tuvok and T'Pel was incredibly passionate, in spite of their Vulcan emotionlessness? What, however, in the he11 is wrong with Janeway? Mark's engagement fell through? MARK'S ENGAGEMENT FELL THROUGH!!??!! Now we ALL know that her true secret fantasy is to make wild, passionate monkey love with Chakotay. Mark? What drugs were those writers taking? I did think that having Seven carry Naomi through the ship was stupid. When my kids were that size, my standard reply to a "Carry me" request, (unless under extreme circumstances) was "What? Did you break your leg?" This episode was also chock full of great quotes and scenes. The Holodoc, as usual, was great. "I'm a Doctor, not a dragonslayer," and "I'm somewhat of a Renessainance Hologram," were great lines. I also loved the scene on the Delta Flyer: "Can we make first contact or fight a space battle?" "Yeah, can we?" And for once, I didn't even mind that Seven saved the day. In this situation, it seemed a reasonable outcome. Final question: What's the deal with B'Elanna's hair? Has Seven's blond do inspired B'Elanna to break out the Lady Clairol or what? All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed Bliss even though I was prepared to hate it as yet another "Seven saves the ship" episode. Surprising allies... Everyone knew Eric would love this ep... I am glad that some of you were able to get passed the "Seven Saves the ship (again)" Motif and actually find some merit in this ep, which I have already said, was enjoyable to me. We obviously have our predisposition and it is rare when we can overlook them and let a story line just ride on it's own merit. I for one am sick of the Tom/B'Elanna affair, yet I am willing to sit through their dirty laundry as I know that on a voyage such as this relationships of this nature are inevitable... So...why not let a crewmember w/ the knowledge of the Borg, detachment of most human folly run amok every once in awhile...oh yeah, your complaint is that she does it too much! well to that I add: sometimes it's best to forget certain plot loopholes and just try and enjoy the fabric of the moment, or the alien of the week, or even just a different grouping of crew members.... DS9 has groupings of ensembles that has carried the show this far. It took quite awhile for the writers to find that "chemistry"(although I feel lately they're almost killing the show, but I digress)perhaps we will find some strong ensembles that we never suspect... I for one am willing to wait and see.... Waiting for next week...I for one am not sick of the Borg yet... Tired of the Borg? Hardly! Actually adding Seven to the crew just BEGGED for more Borg story lines. And even though many thought Voyager was killing the Borg, Scorpion proved them wrong! I can't wait! Eric, this is the COFFEE Nebula... And trying to fight me with coffee is like putting Brer' Rabbit in the briar patch! :^)... I do appreciate the Bud light...especially if it's your last one (g) but I quit alcohol almost 6 years ago...I am now faced w/ the shortage of DRUM tobacco, and will soon either have to quit smoking(not likely as it's one of the few things that keeps my homicidal tendencies in check) or find new smokes...sniff... I do agree that the Borg additions to Voy were an obvious decision TPTB made because a goood potion of the audience crave this interaction...Just like the Klingon additions to DS9... Are there anymore people willing to join our collective on 2nd viewing? bern (2of4)inverted 42...the answer too...oh yeah this is Trek, not hitchhiker's guide...let's try for a 47... bern, sadly, I disagree Bern said: We obviously have our predisposition and it is rare when we can overlook them and let a story line just ride on it's own merit. What was so novel about this storyline? We've seen it in Trekdom a dozen times! We saw it LAST season with Seven, for crying out loud. Seven saves the ship while the crew is asleep in their little chambers. Bern said: I for one am sick of the Tom/B'Elanna affair, yet I am willing to sit through their dirty laundry as I know that on a voyage such as this relationships of this nature are inevitable... What in heaven's name does this have to do with nearly all of the 13 episodes you've seen this season? What? I should watch Bliss and come to the Nebula and say, "KES SUCKS," even though Kes hasn't been around all season. I don't recall seeing any P/T this episode, do you?. Bern, get a grip. Bern said: So...why not let a crewmember w/ the knowledge of the Borg, detachment of most human folly run amok every once in awhile...oh yeah, your complaint is that she does it too much! Exactly! It's getting very, very old and predictable. If it was the same way with any other character I would feel the same. Bern said: sometimes it's best to forget certain plot loopholes and just try and enjoy the fabric of the moment... This fabric is threadbare. Bern said: DS9 has groupings of ensembles that has carried the show this far. It took quite awhile for the writers to find that chemistry" (although I feel lately they're almost killing the show, but I digress)perhaps we will find some strong ensembles that we never suspect. Voyager had a very strong ensemble once upon a time! It was strong since "Caretaker." Those 9 actors clicked. Now TPsTB are overusing one element of it causing an imbalance. I don't think anyone here has anything against Jeri Ryan. In fact, most of us complimented her performance in "Bliss." However, when a character is given super abilities above and beyond even the captain of the ship then you are in serious jeopardy of ruining an ensemble show, suspending believe (as thinly as it is veiled right now), and even causing dissention within the ranks. We all know that Data was a superior being but we always knew who was the boss. I'm not so sure I know who's running the show anymore. Mrs. Mac Agreed, Mrs. Mac. (NIM) Yeah, like Mrs. Mac said only double :^)... ...by the way, it's always nice to see you around, Bern, even if I don't agree with you on this episode. bern -- 11 Feb 1999, 4:14 PM Mrs Mac, yoour points are valid and I take them in the manner they are given, not as an assassination of my character, or my judgement. Nonetheless, I feel your comments beg for a response... Bern said: We obviously have our predisposition and it is rare when we can overlook them and let a story line just ride on it's own merit.What was so novel about this storyline? We've seen it in Trekdom a dozen times! We saw it LAST season with Seven, for crying out loud. Seven saves the ship while the crew is asleep in their little chambers. I don't think I tried to insinuate that this story was "novel" or even different...I just said it was enjoyable on its own merit...there is hardly ever anything new under the "Trek" sun... Bern said: I for one am sick of the Tom/B'Elanna affair, yet I am willing to sit through their dirty laundry as I know that on a voyage such as this relationships of this nature are inevitable...What in heaven's name does this have to do with nearly all of the 13 episodes you've seen this season? What? I should watch Bliss and come to the Nebula and say, "KES SUCKS," even though Kes hasn't been around all season. I don't recall seeing any P/T this episode, do you?. Bern, get a grip. I will admit that the fact that there was no P/T arc was one of the things I enjoyed about this ep...Never have I said the P/T thing sucks! nor do I mind when it is in the story line, I just said this because I don't like it yet I am willing to sit through it because: Bern said: So...why not let a crewmember w/ the knowledge of the Borg, detachment of most human folly run amok every once in awhile...oh yeah, your complaint is that she does it too much! Exactly! It's getting very, very old and predictable. If it was the same way with any other character I would feel the same. That comment was to acknowledge yor frustrations, I am sorry but, I enjoyed this episode, and, I felt that it was partially due the fact that Seven had help,and perhaps those of you who are sick of "seven saving the day" might find that novel. Bern said: sometimes it's best to forget certain plot loopholes and just try and enjoy the fabric of the moment... This fabric is threadbare. See above. Bern said: DS9 has groupings of ensembles that has carried the show this far. It took quite awhile for the writers to find that chemistry" (although I feel lately they're almost killing the show, but I digress)perhaps we will find some strong ensembles that we never suspect. Voyager had a very strong ensemble once upon a time! It was strong since "Caretaker." Those 9 actors clicked. Now TPsTB are overusing one element of it causing an imbalance. In all respect Mrs. Mac, "The Caretaker" was 5 years ago, by now one would suspect that the actors would have grown, their characters developed on different paths and perhaps there is even a little animosity amongst certain actors which is rumored as to why a show like DS9 only pairs certain actors. We lost Kes,l and now there is a new dynamic. Yes perhaps they use Seven too much, I concede, the power struggle between her and Janeway is yet another thing I find interesting, Probably because deep down under I support Janeway and I know she'll eventually get the "Last Laugh" I don't think anyone here has anything against Jeri Ryan. In fact, most of us complimented her performance in "Bliss." However, when a character is given super abilities above and beyond even the captain of the ship then you are in serious jeopardy of ruining an ensemble show, suspending believe (as thinly as it is veiled right now), and even causing dissention within the ranks. We all know that Data was a superior being but we always knew who was the boss. I'm not so sure I know who's running the show anymore. Mrs. Mac See above, and Yes there is a danger in ruining an ensemble show, and I for one like the fact that in this episode we got to see some other "Chemistries at work" ie Tom, Seven, and Naomi... If you don't like the direction the show is taking, perhaps you should sit out awhile. Meanwhile I will definitly work on "getting a grip" BARF! Well, even though the Beast had to barf up Voyager, I was surprised to find that I enjoyed this episode, like Ginny. I was prepared to cringe after view the trailer and reading the spoilers, but the show wasn't that bad. Maybe it had something to do with the AOTW. I feel he actually saved a blasé show. The actor created a great character, kind of a cross between Long John Silver and Captain Ahab, caught that Ishmel reference. Actually, I felt his performance was so good that it showed up Ryan's week performance this week. I was a little disappointed in her performance this week. There wasn't enough depth. I actually found Seven boring this week. But, I will chalk this up to the fact that she announced her divorce around the time that this episode was filmed. Kind of like McNeill last year who had his family "crisis." But, look at him this year, what a recovery. Now with McNeill, as several have noted, his fatherly instincts showed right through to his character. Looks to me like TPTB are starting to show Tom as the "domestic" personality in the P/T relationship while B'Elanna is the hunter, just look at last week's show, Tom the Matchmaker, Tom the poor hunter. No wonder he barely got through his survival course at the academy. Speaking of B'Elanna, I thought the same thing as Ginny, how come she has become the background character, like Neelix? What's going on? But, that's for another topic. Juxtapose, has anyone noticed how much screen time McNeill has gotten this season? I think he has outdone Ryan. Oh, yes, Naomi, I do like this character, she is the perfect foil for Seven, and I don't find her annoying, but I did not see the purpose of her being prominent in last night's show. She served no purpose other than to punch buttons so Seven could escape. Other than that, I found the show a rehash of the "sleeping" and all of the "Seven Saves The Day" shows from last year. Like I said, the Guest AOTW did the job of saving the show. I really enjoyed watching his performance. Someone commented on the last show where he went back to the Beast, well, I thought it was a proper ending. It's like Hemmingway's "The Old Man and The Sea," this is all this man knew, it was his personal quest. He was connected to the Beast. The Beast is his Bliss, his home, just as Earth is the crew's home. Not Ahab, Quint. Come on, folks! Wasn't it *obvious* that the "Qatai" character was an obvious rip-off, uh, I mean tribute, to Quint in Jaws? Both character with Q names, both salty old sea/spacedogs with long years of experience in hunting the type of beast that Roy Scheider/Jeri Ryan was up against? The grungy old ship that looked like the Orca in outer space? They even got an actor with some physical similarities (from what we could see anyway) to Robert Shaw, and he either had a voice like Shaw's or was doing his best to speak like Shaw. The story of the loss of the huge spaceship with family aboard = sinking of the USS Indianapolis; the insistence that a creature acting on instinct is actually highly crafty and malicious, etc, etc. Homework assignment -- if you haven't seen Jaws, or don't remember it very well, go rent the videotape and then tell me this fellow wasn't channeling Robert Shaw with this role. Lisa Browning -- 11 Feb 1999, 12:51 PM This episode was one of the weakest ones this season. The decision to air it during February sweeps can only be attributed to UPN's misguided notion that Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine equals ratings. The story did not hold my attention for a full hour, and many of the plot elements did not make sense. Why would Janeway be swayed so easily into believing that her own doubts were unwarranted? In "Hope and Fear", Janeway, despite her desire to get the crew home, was cautious about trusting a situation that seemed too good to be true. The idea that they were being manipulated by the beast didn't fully explain why each and every crew member came under it's influence so quickly and simultaneously. Why would every person on board except Naomi and Seven want to return home? Many of the Maquis should have been at least a little reluctant, at least enough to cause some of them to investigate the situation better. Why were all of the crew (again, except Naomi and Seven) rendered unconscious when the ship entered the beast? I could understand Seven staying awake because of some Borg immunity, but what about Naomi? I just didn't buy it. Shawnster -- 12 Feb 1999, 9:45 PM Not one of the better episodes of the year. However, despite my initial trepedation, I found I liked seeiing a big space monster. We haven't seen a really big space monster story for a while (was the Crystalline Entitiy the last one?) First off: A rousing yes to W. Morgan Sheppard. My favorite guest star of the season so far. I really liked him in Max Headroom. I think he plays the crusty characters quite well. And another stellar perfomance from Scarlotte Palmers. Ah, to be so good so young. Is that a benefit or a curse? Well, that's about all of the good I can say for the episode. I found a lot of minor nits and complaints. Things that come to mind: Who outranks who; Seven or Tom? It seemed that Seven was in charge of the away mission to collect deuterium. Even when Tom offered the helm to Naomi, Seven reacted like she was in charge; "Ensign." Speaking of a deuterium search. I just mentioned last week I wanted to see more stuff like that but this isn't what I had in mind. I want to see the scarcity of supplies affect the plot. Why were the ships logs under a security lockout? Seven has several tricks up her sleeve. One would think she's been busy creating back doors into the system and reprogramming the ship so she can take control in a "time of crisis." Just pull open a panel, switch an isoliniar chip and gain access to secure systems. Just push a few buttons and erect force fields only you can control. Security is called to the cargo bay and the only person to show up is Tuvok? I can accept that Seven wasn't infected. Perhaps her Borg implants gave her an immunity but why not Naomi? It was never explained, except that Voyager is her home and she doesn't look forward to seeing Earth. Couldn't the wee beastie conjure up something for Naomi? Something to affect her mind? What about after they were swallowed? Everybody on board was knocked out! Everyone except for Naomi that is. Qatai's shields were failing so Seven planned to beam him to Voyager. To do that Qatai needed to lower his shields. To protect him Seven said she could enhance his shield emitters. Why would she enhance something she wanted shut down? Voyager placed beacons to warn ships away. Those beacons will be doing a lot of good warning ships away from empty space, Qatai stated earlier the beast changed course. I never had the impression it was stationary. No, it wasn't the best of shows but it wasn't the worst of shows. Next week: The Borg Queen is back. The qeeen is dead, long live the queen. Mama Wildman and other Blissfull notes Leonie's repeated comments in the Bliss discussion area made me stop and think. The feeling quickly passed however and I was back to my old self each time. Seriously, Leonie. I don't have a problem with Samantha letting Naomi go off with Tom and Seven. Look at the circumstances. For the crew of Voyager this is no longer a job but their life. These Away Missions to find alternate fuel sources are as much part of daily existance as going to the store is now or hunting for food was to the pioneers. Viewing the situation in that light, it's perfectly understandable for Samantha to allow her daughter to go with Tom and Seven. Tom and Seven (well, maybe not Seven) are more than just fellow crewmembers and workmates to Samantha. Tom is probably the closest thing Naomi has to an uncle. This idea helps explain why, at the very least, Samantha wasn't with them on the Flyer (granted, we should have seen Samantha in Bliss). Samantha has other duties to take care of on Voyager. She may not have had time to go with them. Or, perhaps she wanted a break from her daughter. Parents need time to get away for a while. It's not like Naomi could ever go spend the night at a friends house. Maybe Sam isn't the best mom. I've seen lots of parents pawn their kids off on other people/family. Or, look at it from the field trip perspective. It wasn't a dangerous mission. Sensors showed things were perfectly normal, no risk in Naomi going. Parents today send their children on field trips all the time and they don't know the teachers and bus drivers nearly as much as Samantha knows Tom and Seven. Other notes: I didn't see anyone mention it but I liked the comment Naomi said about missing Seven and not playing games with her anymore. Interesting to think that Seven is willing to continue playing games with Naomi as she did in Infinite Regress. Was it Carol that mentioned Annakah Hanson? I caught that as well. I thought that was good insight. Some part of Seven must be longing to go home. Still didn't explain why Naomi doesn't want to see her father (of course, if you never new the man and he was never mentioned to you and no one else around you had a father, you probably wouldn't miss him). Janeway still pines for Mark. Explains a lot. Deborah47 -- 14 Feb 1999, 12:32 AM Not to disagree with your final premise Shawnster, but I don't believe it. The "monster" of the week was giving people illusions, not necessarily their heart's desire. And the biggest illusion is the lack of problems in their life. Think about these "fantasies": 1. Chakotay gets pardoned and goes to work at the university. Okay, what about the Maquis? or the Cardassians, not to mention the Dominion screwing around his old stomping grounds. And what about Janeway? Despite the fact that he's no longer in Janeway's chain of command he doesn't include her in his fantasy? 2.Tom's fantasy is to be a test pilot on the beach? Where's B'Elaana, where's his attitude (You're going to need your best pilot Ma'am and that would be me), I can't believe even a test pilot outranks being Voyager's helmboy. By getting out of the alpha quadrant's starfleet, however, he's avoiding everything that used to get him into trouble 6 years ago. 3. Neelix's fantasy I can almost live with, although in his dream sequence I would have had Samantha and Naomi in the background beaming approval. Does ANYONE think that Neelix will give up his role as "Godfather" once they get back home? I don't think so, but Mr "Ensign Wildman" might have other plans. For him to fantasize a life without those two certainly solves that connundrum. 4. Tuvok's fantasy is totally to be expected, and proper for a man psychically linked to one being for 67 (71+) years. But WHAT is he thinking about? Playing his lute? I don't hardly think so! He's counting the years (Like the rest of us) and knows that Pon Farr is due sometime in the next 2 years. 5. B'Elaana? We all heard her expression of love to Tom, But her strongest fantasy was the Maquis? Perhaps this was because that was her biggest problem in her life (Extreme Risk rears it's ugly head). Do we see a trend here? 6. Now as for Mark. Janeway has a problem that she can't solve. It's called her sublimated feeling for a certain Angry Warrior. She can't pursue a relationship on Voyager with someone in her chain of command, she can't run off and join the Maquis with Chak once they get home, Mark was her healing relationship after the death of her fiance and can help her heal from the loss of Chak. We are so used to hearing TPTB screw up continuity, that everyone has assumed they made a mistake when Janeway read her letter from Mark, "the engagement is off". I don't think it was a continuty error. The fantasy for Janeway was to give her a trouble free relationship, and it was less traumatic for her to imagine her return busting up an engagement rather than a marriage. I think we can safely conclude (that I need another hobby), and that Mark is now just a Chakotay wannebe. (Hope springs eternal for the frustrated J/Cer). 7. & 8. I guess that leaves us with Seven and Naomi. Why did't they succumb? Perhaps their lives don't have the problems / the baggage that the adults have. They are both children in one way, and they HAVE all they need. Mom and Dad are there, (Janeway / Tuvok : Samantha / Neelix) Home is there (Voyager) Friends are there (Paris, Kim, each other), School is there (Delta Quadrant). In fact, the only "problem" they had was they didn't WANT to "go home". I think that confused the Monster of the week enough that it took 43 minutes of the episode before it realized it was feeding Seven THE WRONG LINE! Oh well, just another opinion from the cheap seats. Wasn't Mama Wildman just nearly killed on a "routine" mission? I have to disagree with you and Ginny. Sending a young child on an away mission far from Voyager in unknown space seems far too risky to me. I think that she should learn to use ship's systems, including flying the shuttle. But not in dangerous conditions. Plus, I would think that her mother's near death from a Delta Flyer accident only four months previous would make both Naomi and her mother vividly aware of what can do wrong on a simple mission. Another factor might be that the presence of a child aboard would make the other crew act abnormally. Their natural first priority would be to save Naomi before any other consideration. Okay, I guess that a reasonable response is to ask, "Do you keep Naomi cooped up onboard until she's grown up?" To which I guess I answer, "Probably." An analogy might be a 19th century wagontrain through hostile Indian territory. You let the kids play around the wagons but you don't let them go on hunting or scouting parties unless they're old enough to defend themselves. On another topic, I guess that I don't understand the psychology of small children. Why does Naomi not want to go to Earth? I would think that she would fantasize seeing about her father for the first time. And want her mother to get her husband back. And simply to have adopted the goal that Janeway and the others have so strongly adopted. If she wants to be the Captain's Assistant, I would think she would adopt the captain's goals. Dangerous field trips. A good point re: field trips in the delta flyer. By that same reasoning, every school that ever had a bus crash, plane crash, accident of any kind would solve the problem by doing away with the extracurricular activity. As far as I know, Syracuse University still sends scholars to European cities, despite losing 30some students to a bomb on that jet over Lockerbee Scotland. Your analogy to the old wagon trains is a good one Terry, but I think you are interpreting them with turn of millenium sensibilities. I think those kids WERE taken on foraging expeditions so they could get some on the job training. A great example of what I'm talking about can be found in the book "West With The Night" by Beryl Markham. She details growing up on a "plantation" just after the turn of the (19th/20th) century in Africa. You'll want to read her comment about going on hunting trips, as a child, with local Masai (sp?) warriors equipped only with a spear. Not much protection when you run into those darn lions (which of course they do). As for "why shouldn't" Naomi want to go home? How many 4 1/2 year old get to be Captain's assistant in the alpha quadrant? Her whole life is Voyager. She has no concept of what she's missing in a father, she's always had Neelix as a substitute. The only thing she didn't have was a playpartner other than Neelix and Mom, and now she has two, Seven & Tom. Finally, Voyager itself isn't the safest place to be, so why not stretch your legs and go for a stroll with Tom and Seven in the Flyer? You make a good point. About different cultures and how they treat children. Naomi is naturally exposed to a great deal of danger just by being on Voyager itself. So maybe it makes sense to train her in potentially hazardous situations. Where it mightn't back in the AQ. However, your mention of kids on buses and planes was stretching your point too far. Statistically, accidents there occur very seldomly. According to Jules' shuttle count, nearly 30 shuttles have been involved in accidents. That's about one shuttle accident about every seven weeks for a small population of only about 150. Jules, I'm sure that you can correct my rough shuttle figures. Maybe you can come up with some shuttle actuarial tables? How much does collision insurance cost on those babies, anyway? (If the Federation were vulgar enough to actually use money, that is.) And are dynamatric fins a safety feature that produces lower insurance premiums or a sign of a hot-rod pilot and thus higher premiums? Well, women drivers have lower premiums... So it makes sense to train another of them. :-) Actually, that's a wonderfully bizarre concept... shuttle insurance premiums. I love it. Do you suppose they have a company policy through Starfleet, or personal insurance for each individual? If the former, they'll undoubtedly find that they can't claim for those first three and a half years between "Caretaker" and "Message In A Bottle" when Starfleet let the policy lapse. If the latter, I wouldn't want to have to pay out Chakotay and Tom's renewals every year. Ouch. Dynametric tail fins are, obviously, used in much the same way as those little stabiliser wheels that some of us had on our first two wheeler bikes. They're a safety feature to stop the shuttle wobbling, and therefore the premiums are lower. Of course the hot-rod pilot takes this bonus gratefully and omits to mention that they also have a secondary function: that of making his shuttle look cool... I probably need to go back and count up my own shuttle stats at some point, but should I also point out that we don't know how many times they've sent a shuttle out and it's returned unscathed... because those shuttles aren't exciting enough to make screen time. We only get to see the disasters in the characters' lives, not the humdrum existence in between. Not that there's time for much in between the way they mangle the stardates sometimes... Note that I only used accident frequency, not percentage. About Naomi and her father.... Several people have mentioned the fact that it was odd that Naomi apparently didn't want to return to Earth. Deborah47 pointed out that Naomi's whole life is VOY, and it was what she is used to. That is probably true to some extent. Naomi probably realizes that when VOY gets back "home" she and her mother will leave the ship --- and Neelix, and Tom, and Seven, and Flotter... Oh, wait, that might be a good thing ;-) --- and go live with someone she's never met, and who will also have a claim on her mother's attention. I would imagine that no matter how attractive the child might find the idea of "Daddy," she'd also find it downright frightening. If VOY were a sitcom, we'd probably be getting ready to see the obligatory episode where Naomi attempts to matchmake between her mother and Neelix, so they can just cut the imaginary Dad out of the picture. (And I breathe a sigh of relief that VOY is NOT a sitcom.) Plus, if you think about it, if Voyager truly is the Ship of Celibacy, Naomi doesn't have any examples of the kind of family life she'd have back on Earth. Her mother may be telling her that her father is wonderful, and Naomi would have a lot of playmates her own age but that has to be almost unimaginable to Naomi. They apparently didn't even let the poor kid play with those children in "Counterpoint," and the only example of another "Mom and Dad," are that wacky dysfunctional twosome, Janeway and Chakotay. OH YUUUUCK!!!! Ruth may be right! She probebly DOES think of Neelix as Dad!!! I feel so sorry for Naomi now. Poor child, NOBODY should have to feel that pain. But on the plus side, at least she doesn't think of HARRY as her Dad :-D Deborah47 -- 14 Feb 1999, 2:27 PM Actually, it's probably very good for Naomi to have Neelix as a role model. If he can overcome the orange Mohawk hairstyle (here's to hoping TPTB don't try that one on Janeway), the spots down to here, and the absolutely atrocious fashion style he exhibits on voyager, then she can deal with the fact that she is the only one on Voyager with 4 (or is it 5) horns growing out of her forehead! The true YUCCCHHH!!!! should be reserved for the idea of Neelix being The Freddy character in "My Fair Borg". Shudder. I hadn't considered that Terry. As Captain's Assistant, you would think that she would adopt Captain Janeway's goals. To get the crew home. I'm glad that you brought it up, because Voyager is the only home Naomi knows, and getting home would not be a priority with her. I can understand her not wanting to see her father, since she doesn't know him, so how could she miss him. Samantha may miss him, but Naomi wouldn't. Since the ship has always been her home from the time of her birth, and it is the only life she has known, my guess is that adventuring will always be in her blood. I could see her going to starfleet, and volunteering for deep space missions, without a possibility of ever comming home. Simply because her values are not the values of the Voyager crew. Janeway's 'This Side of Paradise' Now that it has calmed down around here, I'd like to express a few thoughts about the problems I've had with the way my favorite character has been written these past few seasons. First, let me say that so far, this season has not been too bad for Janeway, except for a few minor set backs (e.g. 'Bliss' and 'Night') . Every Trek series has featured a character with special "super human" (for lack of a better phrase) abilities: like Spock, Data, and Odo ... on Voyager that "super human" character started out as Doc. One thing these characters always had in common was respect for their captains. But last season a new character was added to Voyager- a regular character who has "super human' abilities, but seems to be written specifically to defy the Captain and make her look inferior. This happened at an unfortunate time, when we are getting our first in-depth look at a series that features a *female* starfleet captain in action instead of a man. In all fairness, before Seven's introduction to the series Janeway was already on a decline and cheated of the respect we've seen given to her captain predecessors. So why did TPTB decide to introduce a character who is constantly in conflict with Janeway when Janeway was already on the decline? And, why did this have to happen to the first female captain featured in a series? To me that is part of the problem. Instead of improving the way Janeway is written, they've introduced a new character that is being given the strong-willed "heroine" episodes. These "save the ship" episodes should rightfully be given more frequently to the captain. At least traditionally that is how it was done. I'd like to note, I've never disliked Jeri Ryan the actress, in fact I like her. I blame TPTB for making Seven the heroine (more often than not) at Janeway's expense. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I like my Trek captains to be the number one heroes on the ship and I like the 'super human' character to respect and support them. It's the same with Sisko, Picard and of course Kirk. 'Bliss' reminded me very much of the TOS episode 'This Side of Paradise'in many ways. 'TSOP' is the one where Spock is in love (hanging from the tree limb) and the crew is changed by the plant spores. In 'TSOP' the crew is overcome by spores that cause them not to see what is happening to them, just like what happens to the crew in 'Bliss'. But, in 'TSOP' we had that wonderful scene where Captain Kirk, having been exposed to the spores, is packing up some possessions before leaving his ship for the last time. He is preparing to join his crew on the planet below and once he beams down it will be the end of the Enterprise when its orbit finally decays. But Kirk, unlike Janeway, finds the strength of will to overcome the spores and free his mind from their influence. Eventually he restores the rest of the crew to their senses and saves the Enterprise. Granted, there are major difference between the crew's fates in 'Bliss' and 'TSOP', but the mind-changing effect on the crew was similar. Unfortunately in 'Bliss' Janeway was cheated of this type of episode showing the special type of will power and inner strength that supposedly makes a Starship captain a cut above the rest. Instead the plum was given to Seven. Seven had her strength of will scene near the end where she was led to believe that the first explosion had freed them. She was able to overcome the illusion and see the truth, even when Tuvok, Janeway and the rest could not. She was able to overcome the effects of the mind control by listening to the Doctor and the AOTW reasoning about it, yet when Seven earlier had tried to explain to Janeway what was happening, Janeway was not able to make this same leap and see the truth of what was happening. I guess this is what bothered me most about 'Bliss'. It would have been a great opportunity to feature Janeway's (a female captain's) strength of will in the same way 'This Side of Paradise' featured Kirk's. Janeway was robbed of that opportunity to show why she is a cut above the rest and is the captain. Mac. -- 14 Feb 1999, 3:13 PM Great thoughts, Mike. My wife has expressed some of the same thoughts you did about the weakening of Janeway's character. Aside from the redundant heroic Borg efficiency, I don't necessarily have a problem with Seven *saving* the crew. I do have a problem with Janeway looking like a fool on mind drugs for 44 minutes. I would have enjoyed this episode more if Janeway had gathered her cognitive strength in the end to recover her sensitivies. At that point she could have assisted Doc and Seven in the release of the ship. In that manner the dignity of her captaincy would have been preserved and the SuperBorg notion would have been appropriately subdued. Annie -- 16 Feb 1999, 8:38 PM I liked the episode okay. It was a bit tried, but all in all entertaining. I, like others am getting a bit weary of the "Seven saves the day" all the time theme. I think TPTB have wronged Janeway big time as of late. What ever happened to our captain anyway? I too miss B'Elanna and Chakotay as key players. I count B'Elanna's (RD's) absence to her preference. After all, she is a new mother, and I believe it is probably her choice to be "less there" this season in order to spend precious time with her little one and her husband. Chakotay on the other hand I don't know about. I do miss them both dearly, and I think the show is suffering from their lack of exposure this season. My likes: Favorite line: "I'm a doctor, not a dragon slayer." I enjoy Naomi Wildman, and I don't think she has been all that prevalent this season. I do believe, where she is concerned that a little bit goes a long way though (ok Leoni?). I wouldn't like to see her all the time either, but it is nice to know she is there and alive. I loved the scene with she, Tom and Seven in the shuttlecraft, and also the scene with Tom carrying her on their return to Voyager. I thought Naomi's interaction with Seven were touching. I also liked it that she was smart enough to disobey Chakotay. I liked the fact that Seven was so flexible with Naomi. She gave commands to the child never once giving Naomi the chance to doubt the necessity of following her orders. She was also human enough to give the child comfort, trust and encouragement when she needed it. I loved Quati. What an adorable ugly alien. His passion to outsmart and kill the "Monster" was definitely reminiscent of Moby Dick (as others have said). Tom everywhere, I love it! Arguments: Janeway. How could she let herself succumb to the aliens influence. She should have put up more of a resistance. If I'm not mistaken, I think Mark got married. Anyhow, her behavior is par for the course these days now isn't it. I would even have liked seen Seven to attempt to awaken Janeway and explain the situation and let them both work on trying to overcome the "Monster" together. I could have lived with that. The whole Seven, Naomi not falling under the "Monster's" spell was kind of believable I guess. Neither of them had the collective desire of returning to Earth. But, what about the letter Seven supposedly received from her Aunt? Did she actually see a real letter on that data padd? Or, when Neelix handed her the padd, and she didn't see anything one of the reasons she knew something was off kilter? We don't know. When Quati was beamed aboard Voyager, his ship was presumed to be doomed within 15 minutes. Did Seven go ahead and enhance his shields anyway? I guess obviously she did, cause he boarded his ship some time later than 15 minutes to expel the antimatter from Voyager to ignite it with a blast from his ship. I do regret that there was not scene with Naomi and Samantha. Has Samantha gone away with the wind like Joe Carey and Vorik? There should have been a scene with the child and her mother! All in all, I still think the episode was entertaining. I would like to see more appearances and strength from our old faithful originals (B'Elanna, Chakotay, Harry, Janeway). Did I actually just ask for more appearances for Harry Kim!? Well, I guess he must have just won me over with his Timeless performance. Don't sign me up for the Seven Collective yet, Eric... ...because, much as I treasure the honorary YAM membership you conferred upon me back in the summer when I was writing all those Voyager City action scenes, my ultimate aim isn't ASATT [All Seven All The Time]. I'm actually angling for ATATT (All Tom, All the Time)... and this season I seem alarmingly close to getting it at times. Enough so to keep on hoping, anyway. :-) The Bliss Collective is another matter though. From what I heard of the episode through advance spoilers I was less than enamoured of the idea of the episode... space creature swallows Voyager while the crew are deceived into thinking it's a wormhole home sounded about as lame as you can get. And certainly I don't think it's Voyager's finest hour. But I had a fun and entertaining evening watching it, which is about all you can really ask for. My favourite bit was watching the blissed out crew, prior to their falling unconscious. That scene where Seven walks in on them in Astrometrics is fascinating. There's some really freaky body language going on there - everyone in the room is grinning from ear to ear, relaxed in posture... Even Tuvok. I guess they were just demob happy, with a push to extremism from the telepathic influence of the alien creature, but seeing them enthusiastically hopping like they have ants in their uniforms would be enough to make me squirm just like Seven does. You can hardly fault her for being suspicious of the way they're acting. And I'll swear that every time the camera came back to Janeway as the episode progressed, her hair had got bigger, her eyes wilder, and the smile wider and more worrying. By the time she snuggled comfortably into her captain's chair and ordered Tom to go full steam ahead through the "wormhole" I think I'd almost have been glad to see the Death Glare. Talking of that moment... we got another "Threshold" namecheck. Yay! It's only appropriate, since this episode was about the false hopes of another quick route home. Sure, it's a "Seven saves the ship" episode. But she doesn't do it single handedly; she needs the Doctor, Naomi and Qatai, and couldn't have done it without them. And, significantly, it's not about her being Borg... except in as much as that it was her years as a drone which disconnected her emotional connection with "home". It isn't Seven the Borg who saves the ship; it's Seven the human whose life experiences have led to her being proof against the attractions on offer. Seven's ambivalence to returning to the Alpha Quadrant is well known and long established, so it does make sense in character terms that she should be one of those resistant - or semi-resistant to the lure of the creature. And I think the episode itself established enough about the reasons why Naomi is less than enthusiastic about the return to Earth. She really doesn't know any life other than the ship. All her desires and dreams are currently centred around distinguishing herself in some way as part of its crew, everybody she knows is on Voyager, she's young enough to be fired with the enthusiasm for a life of adventure and danger without truly appreciating that she isn't invulnerable, and is therefore as prey to the hazards of the journey home as that nameless ensign sitting in the co-pilot's seat next to Chakotay. She likes her life the way it is, and having never known anything else, she's suspicious and a little bit afraid of the prospect of change. Irrespective of having to meet the father she's never known - assuming that Sam Wildman didn't get a "Dear Jane" letter back in "Hunters" - the Alpha Quadrant would split up her current family, and even though Neelix and her closest friends would undoubtedly visit, it's not quite the same as having them live on the next deck. Under normal circumstances I can see these two not being the only ones to resist the lure of the Alpha Quadrant. Tom, for instance, has often been pretty ambivalent about it, since he recognises that the life and second chance that the Delta Quadrant gave him is infinitely better than what he had before he was snatched from home in the first place. And his natural pessimism has a tendency to kick in and remind him that some of that good life might disappear upon their return. It's not just a fear of having to face and reconcile with Daddy; there's also the fact that he might have to finish that prison sentence (however unlikely a prospect), lose his Starfleet commission, lose his chance to fly again. And I'd expect much the same to apply to anyone in the crew who had similar misgivings that home might not be as good as here. But the creature's insiduous influence has bypassed everyone's pessimistic tendencies by persuading them that everything will be better. And without the suspicion and the fear and the self-doubt, their ability to resist goes as well. So no, I don't have a problem with Seven and Naomi being the only organic beings on the ship not to be affected. Maybe it would have been nice to find someone who was naturally resistant, in the same way as Qatai was, but on the other hand that would have spoiled Seven's shock at finding that actually she wasn't, it was just that it was using the wrong approach. :-) Jules, I kind of like the idea of ATTTAT All The Time Tom And Torres! :) ATATT? Where do I sign up? Once again, Jules, we are eerily in agreement, especially about Naomi. She has no compelling reason to want to see her father. She's never had a father, and she's never, in her whole life, been around anyone who had an observable father-child relationship. How could she miss something she's never seen? Our unity of thought is beginning to unnerve me. As for the "threshold" remark, I thought I caught another one in DARK FRONTIER. It has to be a Season 5 in-joke. I noticed that "threshold" line in both episodes. And Count me as one of the rare few who liked the "Threshold" episode if only for the scene with Janeway in Tom's quarters. Annnnnnnnnnddddd...you'll notice in that episode that he kidnapped Janeway like he'd been waiting for her. Annnnnnnnddddddd...you'll notice that in Sickbay after they'd been restored to their former beauty, that Janeway asked Tom what made him think he initiated the mating between them? After all, he turned into what her spirit guide is. The scene that was cut from the rest of the U.S., but was aired in the St. Pete area was when she said to him, "Well, I've seen your big bad lizard side and I wouldn't mind seeing it again." and he replied with a slight grin, "Careful what you wish for, Captain." (They were going to omit one word from her comment but decided against it, it being a family show and all.) I think the title of that episode was originally "Mutant Fever". Didn't he also say that in Night? When Voyager entered the vortex? Or maybe in Timeless or Hope and Fear when Voyager started the slipstream drive? Jules, we should have had an pool for "We have crossed the threshold" lines. I know Tom made a "threshold" comment in at least one other ep. Because I remember commenting on it in my review, but I can't remember which one it was. Yes to "Night" and "Timeless". No to "Hope and Fear". You're right about the pool though. But how were we to know? And you know what'll happen if we do one next year. The magic word will never be mentioned again. Hmm. How many "thresholds" is that now? We're going to have to start keeping count. Hmm, how are we doing so far? Prior to "Dark Frontier", this season had produced the following: Night Timeless Counterpoint Bride of Chaotica! Bliss True, a lot of them don't have quite the same contextual ring about them to elicit the snigger factor, but that's still a lot of mentions. The only other season I can give you figures for (without spending a lot longer than ten minutes on the research) is season four, but by comparison, in that season the magic word was used exactly zero times. It's got to be an in-joke. Hmm. Perhaps you should add a "threshold" query to your list of questions for Robert Picardo. At the very least you might get a lizard baby joke or two out of it. I had another thought about Naomi and observable father-child relationships, by the way. There's actually only one person on the ship who even refers to their father in conversation very much... and you'd think that if she'd overheard Tom on the subject she'd be even more reluctant to meet hers, in case he turned out to be just like Tom's Daddy... One other thing I forgot to say earlier, about Mark's "engagement" falling through. Sure, it was probably a continuity glitch. But on the other hand it could just be taken as a sign that Janeway was so blissed out that she didn't even recall any more that he'd taken a more irrevocable step. For the extra layers of self deception it implies, I actually rather like it better that way than if she'd reported her letter as saying that Mark's wife had dropped dead or he'd got a divorce... Janeway's reference to Mark. Jules wrote: One other thing I forgot to say earlier, about Mark's "engagement" falling through. Sure, it was probably a continuity glitch. But on the other hand it could just be taken as a sign that Janeway was so blissed out that she didn't even recall any more that he'd taken a more irrevocable step. For the extra layers of self deception it implies, I actually rather like it better that way than if she'd reported her letter as saying that Mark's wife had dropped dead or he'd got a divorce... Jules, someone else brought this up (I think here; I'll need to double check and see if Review Boy brought it up in his review), and I think it makes a lot of sense. Everyone was going back to a stress free life -- I think the same person brought up the fact that Tom didn't mention his Dad, or a future for his sometimes troublesome relationship with B'Elanna, but instead he was going to a place where he could do the two things that would guarantee him perpetual fun --- flying and being a beach bum. Kathryn's life would be much less stressful if Mark realized his love for Kathryn had never died and dumped the fiancée. Ditto if neither she nor Chakotay have to worry about any latent feelings for each other. Deborah47 -- 23 Feb 1999, 7:15 PM Did the ATATT brigade utter a collective "oh shoot" (perhaps equivalent to the ASATT howl in Revulsion) when Janeway muttered these immortal lines in "Threshold". "I've always considered the possibility of having children one day Mr Paris....I just NEVER considered having them with YOU!" How many Tommy induced heart attacks did that little line elicit? As always, I remain the keeper of the J/C flame...D47 Deborah47 -- 23 Feb 1999, 7:300 PM Thanks Ruth & Jules, its nice to know...that someone agrees with me. It was my first LONG dissertation: "Ts(Is) it Mark or fewer complications." D47 | ||
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