Learning Curve

Voyager Revisited: Learning Curve
Jules -- 20 Feb 2002, 14:55 EST

"Get the cheese to sickbay!" -- B'Elanna Torres

Re: Voyager Revisited: Learning Curve
CAM -- 20 Feb 2002, 17:18 EST

This was a great Tuvok, Chakotay and Doc show. In fact all of the regulars got some good lines. The actor playing Dalby was excellent and I am sorry we never got to see him again. He was understandably bitter and alienated but was definitely a leader. Chell was also memorable. He never did learn to keep quiet did he? Poor Tuvok was out of his depth till he was able to show the Maquis that he did care for them. I wonder if Chakotay did tell his people to take it easy on Tuvok? Someway I doubt it. To them he was a spy and a betrayer. I felt for both Tuvok and Dalby in the Sandrine's scene. Chakotay was very much the Maquis captain and the alpha male. He did it very well. I wish that we had seen more of this facet of his character and less of the lap-dog/wooden Indian in the later years. Doc had some good zingers, and worked so well with Kes. Eric, I also missed her, intelligent, lovely,empathic and caring. Why did they get rid of her?

Re: Voyager Revisited: Learning Curve
Carus -- 21 Feb 2002, 10:02 EST

as a teacher, I felt for Tuvok too, There Is Nothing worst than having to teach students who don't want to be taught. Also, this was my favorite Tuvok episode, and it had my favorite line "get the cheese to sick bay"

An appropriate finale to Season 1, with the last of the Maquis holdouts finally "going Starfleet".
D -- 21 Feb 2002, 14:12 EST

Though I doubt Dalby managed to completly stay out of trouble afterwords. And Chell never did learn when to stop talking.

Something that still bugs me is the whole Tuvok bending the rules conversation at the end. I know it was intended to show both him and the Maquis willing to be flexible, and that he paid attention to what Neelix had to say. But what he did seems to be standard procedure: get your people to safety, preferably somewhere where they'll be able to regroup & return to/with help, then go back after the injured crewman rather than risk everyone on a rescue.

Likes: Dalby not getting any sympathy from Torres - she may not have graduated from the Academy, but she made it into her second year, so she'd been through the "boot camp" part. I know in his review Jim says she "has already done the Starfleet Shuffle and is now firmly camped in Janeway's big tent", but I see it more as "if I could complete basic and learn the protocols so can you". At the beginning she may not have wanted to be there or have to operate under Starfleet procedures, but she knew what they were. Same thing with Chell. The way Harry and B'Elanna dealt with Chell's assignment suggests "been there, done that" from both of them. Given B'Elanna's history she probably suffered through a number of punishment details and even "Ensign Perfect" Kim must have had some, though his "you missed a spot" was a bit much. Guess by the time they were first year cadets Tuvok was working for Janeway and no longer conducting basic/survival training at the Academy.

Chakotay - he knew just how to get Dalby's attention . And his reason for including Garon in the group make sense; other than Kes he is probably the youngest and the least experienced of anyone on board.

Shouldn't someone have thought about ventilation in the galley long before this? Since it started as the captain's dining room adjacent to the mess hall I would think there would have been some separate ventilation to start with - even with replicators things get burned or have strong smells.

Re: Voyager Revisited: Learning Curve
Begonia -- 21 Feb 2002, 16:10 EST

I'm going to wade in with a dissenting opinion.

I hated this episode when I first saw it and I still hate it now. While I appreciate that there are some individual moments that are quite amusing, I find I find what it says about both the characters and the background to the society in which they live to be totally offensive.

How? Well, lets start with Starfleet Academy, shall we? So, what IS Starfleet Acadamy? is it a training ground for the best and brightest minds in the federation, a centre of excellence for scientific AND other disciplines - or it is a pseudo military boot camp where every vestige of independent thinking is brainwashed out of impressionable and intimidated young students? By definition, these two extremes are mutually exclusive - and this episode swings the pendulum firmly in the bootcamp direction, which says so much about how the writers and producers of the show had changed the idea of the Federation, and Starfleet's part in it, since the original series.

This was the episode where I first realised that the writers were actually patterning their ideas of the whole starfleet structure and heirarchy on a 20th century American military structure. Before that, I had assumed that, being a much more advanced and enlightened society than we are in the 21st century, they would have managed to have, well, to put it bluntly, GROW UP! I've heard lots of arguments that say that there is no other way to structure an organisation like Starfleet than to use a strict military heirarchy, and my counter to that is, maybe there isn't now, but in another four hundred years, we darn well should have learned to produce different structures which are more flexible, do not undermine the whole concept of free will, and which can be used to represent the whole of the federation population rather than a very extreme societal subset.

Having read the original 'making of Star Trek' books when I was much younger, I am sure that Gene Roddenbery's original vision did not include a Starfleet patterned on today's military structures, and to be honest, I find it to be an indictment on the creativity of the show's creators that they can't come up with something less derivative.

So what was it that REALLY annoyed me? I think there were three points overall.

First - the idea that Tuvok would EVER have been an instructor at the Federations' finest academic instution behaving like THAT! He behaved in a patronising, rigid, downright offensive way that anyone who had even half a clue about man management would have known not to do. Even given that his pupils were unwilling and unreceptive, his behaviour would still have been unacceptable in any educational establishment which was dedicated to getting the best out of its students - his way is definitely NOT the way to do it! Behaving like that, as he mentioned he did used to do at the Academy, he should have been summarily dismissed from his teaching position, or at the very least, given a disciplinary hearing and told that if he didn't shape up, he was out. That he evidently hadn't been tells me more that I wanted to know about the way students are actually viewed at this wondrous institution known as Starfleet Academy - on this evidence it is indeed a bootcamp designed to intimidate and brainwash. I would have passed this off as a one off if it hadn't been backed up so much by the evidence of both B'Ellana, who was plainly a potentially superb officer who given the right treatment should never have washed out of Starfleet Academy, and Tom, whose personal problems with his father which led to his eventual downfall, should have been picked up and put right before he got anywhere near graduation. Both of them had bags of potential and they were both seriously let down by the system. If the system was populated with rigid, inflexible, probably bigoted tutors like Tuvok, then it's hardly surprising.

Secondly, the thing that made me most angry about this episode - HOW, does panting around the ship exposing oneself to the knowing smirks and behind the back laughter of one's shipmates - especially on such a small ship where everyone knows everyone on sight - how does being made to humiliate oneself in public actually contribute to making these four people better team players? It is much more likely to alienate them completely. How does being made to clean a transporter pad with an instrument which will take 20 hours instead of the 5 minutes it would take with the proper tool make Chell a better officer? Again, how the HELL does this ritual humiliation contribute to anything except a further feeling of marginalisation and exclusion from four people who already feel that way? This treatment made me see RED and the more I think about it the more I see that the Federation is really not a place I would want to live. If somebody tried to make me do that at work, I could get them for constructive dismissal! Just because someone arbitrarily decided that this would be a Starfleet crew, all the people who were not voluntarily sworn into Starfleet had to lose all of their civilian rights? I don't think so. I don't care how much of a necessity putting the crews together was, this situation was handled in a completely unacceptable, heavy handed fashion.

Thirdly: Talking about heavy handed. There's Chakotay. Someone said Alpha Male? If you're an Unas, maybe (small Stargate reference there). The four involved come to him, to talk to him because they feel they are being treated unfairly (by the way, they are...) and what does he do? Granted, they may not have broached the subject very tactfully, but was that any excuse for him to just turn round and punch them out? The Maquis way, eh? Do it this way or the Maquis way, and I'll beat you up again. Well, THAT really taught them by example, didn't it! Chakotay revealed his true nature as a brute and a bully, and in this episode I lost all vestiges of respect for him - and didn't get it back for a long time.

It's a pity that such a wonderful line as 'get the cheese to sickbay' was wrapped up in an episode like this that even now I find painful to watch. With the additional distance a few years brings I can see that some of what I hated was actually addressed in the show itself with Neelix helping Tuvok with his little problems, but my original point remains; the fact that Tuvok behaved that way towards the four of them is not nearly as disturbing to me as the fact that he had behaved in similar ways - and got away with it! - at a place designed to nurture the best and most brilliant minds of their generation. Well, at the university I went to (which was a good one in the UK), the best and most brilliant minds there (some of which are now well known names in their respective fields) would NEVER have tolerated being treated like this.

The problem is, the show's creators never could decide whether Starfleet was designed to be primirily devoted to peaceful exploration, scientific advance and and nurturing of great minds, or a military defensive force to protect the Federation. Maybe in the 24th century, they found ways of making it both, but on this evidence, this isn't the way to do it!

Okay, that's my rant over. I'm getting too hot under the collar just thinking about it, so I think I'll shut up now!

But Bagonia, how do you really feel!
Shadda -- 21 Feb 2002, 19:33 EST

You made some really great points. I totally agree with you regarding the "military" nature of Starfleet. I thought Trek was supposed to be about a kinder gentler humankind. A humankind that was interested in exploration and science, not war mongering. There are way too many very effective terriorist groups and gurilla warriors out there that belie the notion that a well trained well discplined army is the only way to go. They do need a kind of paramilitary type organization, but these people are supposed to really be on an adventure, not be out to conqure the universe.

I thought, when I first started watching Trek way back in the dark ages, that it was silly that they had ranks. Yes, they did engage in fights all the time, but I thought they were trying to do something different. By having everyone have a rank, it was too easy to slip into your basic military adventure.

Shadda

Ive been thinking about your post a lot, Begonia
david g -- 22 Feb 2002, 22:06 EST

I have to say, I really agree with the points you vividly and compellingly made about this ep...esp about Chak's brutal response.

Ive always enjoyed LC as a good minor episode of VOY--i like seeing Tuvok's moral struggle with his responsibility. I like Dalby a lot and as someone else said I wish we'd seen more of him.

You articulated a lot of my own anxieties about the ep and the militaristic mania of it....but...

I keep wondering why i enjoy the ep, anyway. I think i see the military side of the Federation as ONE aspect of it--it is a military organization, after all--rather than what it is in toto. Not all members of the Fed. must join Starfleet, after all...i think Starfleet is a very different aspect of the Fed--emphasizing martial prowess and skill, training people to be enlightened soldiers, the most idealistic, perhaps, but soldiers nonetheless.

maybe im just rationalizing--like Adm J and Capt J, having my cake and eating, too--but i tend to think of Tuvok's militarism as Starfleet rather than Federation mentality.

of course, you addressed this--and maybe Starfleet would need to be more commensurate with the utopian ideology of the Federation.

there's always more to VOY eps, for me, than just the A plot. for instance, B'Elanna's gentle reassurance--much like what Ive recently received, with gratitude, from some sensitive Neb members (but i digress)--of Neelix over his calamitous cheese says a lot more about MY idea of the Federation values than the training sessions.

Im not trying to exculpate Chak's violence here--but is it possible to see that mean punch as an example of behavior--Maquis style behavior--that Chak is renunciating as an older, more primitive code?

then again, maybe we just didnt see this side of Chak often enough--think about the eulogy he gives in ALLIANCES (one of VOY's most unsung eps) about fighting off bad guys with his dead friend.

Mixed bag.
Nina -- 24 Feb 2002, 08:36 EST

I found "Tuvok's Boot Camp" silly at best; offensive (for reasons Begonia has explained better than I would have, already) at worst. No, that is NOT how to make the "Maquis misfits" part of the crew. I suspect whoever came up with that sequence was thinking of a fraternity's pledge week, fully as much as of real-life military training programs.

However, Chakotay's "Maquis way" handling of Dalby et al in the mess hall didn't offend me because it to me it made sense. It fit in with his back story of resigning from Starfleet (leaving his idealism behind) and plunging into a life where he had to control, not just work with, mercenaries - serial killers (rememeber Suder?) - spies - as well as good people made desperate by the massacre of loved ones and the loss of homes. Yes, we saw his dark side in this scene; and it wasn't pretty. Dark sides never are.

This is exactly why I always saw Chakotay's devotion to Janeway (even when she was wrong and he was showing it by being a thorn in her side) as so spot-on and wonderful. She gave him back what he'd sacrificed; let him become again who he used to be! But he didn't come through all that unchanged. We got a glimpse of what it cost him to be a Maquis, in that scene; and of how far he was prepared to go, to "persuade" his last few, um, unassimilated crew members to fit into Janeway's crew. With 70 years on that ship ahead, I didn't find it unreasonable for him to believe they HAD to fit in. Somehow.

Re: The public face of the Federation
Begonia -- 24 Feb 2002, 09:27 EST

I'm glad I'm not the only person who has reservations about the issues raised in that (and other, particularly more recent) eps, and I'm glad my post sparked off some contemplation.

What I think disturbs me most about the idea that Starfleet would be the military arm of the Federation in the first place is that it wasn't originally intended to be like that, AND,, and, that it's just plain scarey to consider the implications. The only people we've ever seen go outside the boundaries of the federation space to explore are Starfleet or affiliated with them in some way. It's like saying that the only people who would ever go outside the US to represent their country would be US military personnel. I imagine everyone in the world would find that pretty offensive, not to mention rather xenophobic of the US. I KNOW that probably we are meant to assume that it isn't true, but all the canon evidence we have points to it.

Besides which, I still firmly believe that if Starfleet actually wants the best and the brightest as part of their structure, then the best and the brightest examples of humankind or of the other races simply aren't going to put up with that way of being treated.

Interesting quite from ST NG Tech manual - 'Starfleet recognizes that its single most important system and most valuable resource is its people. The crew of a starship determines, far more than any technology or hardware, the success of any given mission. Accordingly, Starfleet has a long tradition of placing its personnel at the top of its priority list.

*Snip* 'Starfleet personnel are well trained and highly motivated.... Starfleets command structure is designed to support this philosophy and our officers understand the importance of nurturing and encouraging the effots of ech crew member. This ranges from ample opportunities for personnel to advance within Starfleet, to a policy of actively listening to the needs and concerns of all personnel. ..... the entire organisation is devoted to supporting its people and allowing them to excel..

End quote.

Now, I DID get the impression in a lot of TNG that this philosophy was being adhered to (although not always) but as the years went on with DSN and Voy, I got this impression less and less, and that was why I felt that the show's writers/producers/whatevers had forgotten the words that were written in an official (not canon but officially sanctioned) book by people actually involved in the making of TNG.

Learning Curve was just the worst example, IMO

The Hansens?
david g -- 24 Feb 2002, 10:22 EST

i think DARK FRONTIER shows us, through the anthropologist Hansens, that many different kinds of people go off to meet new species...i dont think only military personnel go off to seek and find...and i agree it would be scary if that were true.

But IIRC, the Hansens were violating Federation guidelines
Terry -- 24 Feb 2002, 13:32 EST

Which instead of providing evidence against the Federation sending out the military first, reinforces it. At least they were not stopped from exploring by the Fed.

And notice that the ships the Federation sends out to make first contact are their biggest and most heavily armed ships. Voyager was a fluke; they weren't supposed to venture into unexplored space.

You described the LC Chak actions very well, Nina. NIM
david g -- 24 Feb 2002, 13:38 EST

Re: Learning how to bend....
Displaced nebbie -- 24 Feb 2002, 14:19 EST

Or... to blend?

The Olympics have seriously put a cramp into my "reviewing" schedule... so I have yet to actually sit down and check this one out in person. Jules' comment on how lightly the "Jetrel" thread was used has lit a flame under me to join this thread before its "too late". One caveat... I can't get to Delta blues on this system so I can't refresh my memory, so forgive me if I make a few errors.

I liked this ep.

I understand the complaints others have had about the system Tuvok utilized in this ep, and yet I felt it was appropriate. He was representing a "polar opposite"... a strict regulation upbringing system vs the Maquis strict "anti"-regulation system.

Begonia wonders "What" is Starfleet Academy.... and to me it has always been a futuristic Westpoint/Annapolis/Colorado Springs facility that trains the exploratory arm of the Federation.

But in the 22-24th century, the Exploratory arm of the Federation is also the military arm.

We might send University professors to Antartica to study cold climates, and to volcanos to study vulcanism... but we don't send them to stop WWII... or the Klingon Empire from invading, or the Romulans, or the Dominion, or the freaking BORG.

We send in the Army, the Navy, the Air Force and the Marines.

In other words, we send in "Starfleet".

Is Westpoint "bootcamp" all the time? No. And neither is Starfleet. But the first 8 weeks sure look that way to most people nowadays, and probably in the 24th century too.

Why has that mentality persisted so far into the future? I don't know.

Is it necessary? I don't know that either.

Was Tuvok wrong to make his troops run around the decks and scrub floors with toothbrushes????

Now THIS one I can pretend to answer.

Yes.

In the context of what he "thought" he was trying to do... "yes".

He was trying to reach out to aliens in the way people at the Academy had reached out to him, 70 odd years before... in the way that the Academy evidently still reaches out. Fraternity "Hell week" is probably a good example of this technique.

Running around while others are smirking, what's that about? It certainly gives the Starfleeters something in common with the Maquis group being run ragged by Tuvok. I remember as a Junior intoning to a freshman once... "Allnighters in finals week, like battle, makes brothers of us all." Heck, I remember looking up a canyon wall above the colorado river one spring day, thinking... "if I can only get back to the top without dying..." my next training assignment at work would be a piece of cake.

By putting his group through the "usual" Starfleet training... although abbreviated", he was trying to give them a sense of belonging and self worth that his Academy normally strove for in its training.

Of course... there IS a difference between training people on the cusp of adulthood who have kicked and scratched their way into your program... and 4 socially isolated adults who have been forced to join your program against their express wishes.

Logical Tuvok had not considered that possibility enough when he began... and that's (to me) the point of this show.

Kathryn Janeway's Voyager left DS9 the very epitome of a Starfleet vessel... and "less than a year ago" it was thrown into the deep end of the ocean with one life-ring and her quarry for company. There was only one way for this crew to survive... and that was to learn from each other and cooperate. Tuvok learned from Neelix... and from Dalby and maybe even from Chell.

But the Maquis also learned something... something that B'Elanna reiterates to Seven 3 years from now. Starfleet protocols ARE there for a reason. Its not just "thats how" we interact, it reassures us that I know what my job is and what your job is and that you WILL do your job. We can glamouize "our" way... the Maquis way... but Chakotay in one split second reminded them that "the Maquis way" may have let them wear their own clothes and avoid filing out application forms, but it wasn't democratic.

Tuvok learned to bend... and the Maquis blended together to form an effective fighting AND thinking force. One that did NOT need their Lieutenant at their side every minute barking orders and solving problems.

The kind of unit that Voyager... and Janeway needed all along.

D47

The Hansens started with Federation (Science Council) backing
D -- 24 Feb 2002, 15:59 EST

But they ignored requests that they return & crossed the Neutral Zone.

As for the military aspects, I see Starfleet as more like the Coast Guard, which is part of the Transportation Department in peace time but Navy in situations like WWII. It operates under military protocols with boot camp type training for recruits and at the Academy (Merchant Marine Academy does that too) and continuing physical training standards. They both have major civilian type roles but also defend the frontiers.

The running and climbing part of Learning Curve has always seemed to me to fit under survival training, which that crew certainly needed on several occasions.

How to treat "the best and the brightest"
Nina -- 24 Feb 2002, 16:21 EST

Begonia, you've reminded me of something I came across while doing the research for "Granite Island." I supplemented what I already knew (from having lived in Castine, Maine for awhile, and visited it many times since) about the Maine Maritime Academy by reading that institution's history. In the chapter on accusations of brutality, hazing, etc., I came across a letter from the then-commanding officer of MMA to the father of a midshipman who'd left after (claimed) physically dangerous harassment - to the extent that the young man's family physician wrote a letter of protest, after examining him on his return home.

(OK, what's her point? Hang in a second, it's coming right up. ) The C.O.'s letter said many things to that father, including (paraphasing from memory): "Your son is among the brightest young men we've ever had on our campus. Perhaps what happened to him is partly due to the fact that the brightest of our students often have the most difficult time learning to obey orders without question."

I thought that was an intriguing thing for the Naval Reserve officer commanding MMA to have said. Food for thought, make of it whatever you will.

Obeying orders without question.
Displaced nebbie -- 24 Feb 2002, 22:57 EST

That REALLY is hard.

My Pop was many things during his time in the Army, and one of them was an ROTC instructor. He loved teaching women their rifle training, becasue they listened, not assuming they knew everything about shooting. The men? He claimed had to spend too much time breaking them of bad habits before he could teach them anything.

I didn't go into the military, and yet I've gone through a version of bootcamp that could probably have made Dalby's hair stand on end. When I had a chance to become "Tuvok", I certainly did tailor my teaching techniques to incorporate my "negative" experiences, and yet I still followed the basic framework they used to teach me. %

Obeying orders without question.
Displaced nebbie -- 24 Feb 2002, 23:03 EST

That REALLY is hard.

My Pop was many things during his time in the Army, and one of them was an ROTC instructor. He loved teaching women their rifle training, because they listened, not assuming they knew everything about shooting. The men? He claimed he had to spend too much time breaking them of bad habits before he could teach them anything.

I didn't go into the military, and yet I've gone through a version of bootcamp that could probably have made Dalby's hair stand on end at times. When I had a chance to become "Tuvok", I certainly did tailor my teaching techniques to incorporate my "negative" experiences, and yet I still followed the basic framework they used to teach me.

Like Tuvok at the Academy, I was blessed with students that WANTED to be exactly where they were. Did that mean they always liked it? Heck no! But sometimes when you are pushed to the limit (or past the limit) and survive it gives you a perspective that no amount of bookwork can provide.

My students, and indeed myself could pick up and leave at any time. Janeway and Tuvok didn't have that luxury. Neither did the Maquis.

And yet... as much as Tuvok "bumbled", and I think he WAS meant to bumble, "he" still learned from his experience. I have no doubt that he also incorporated "what" he learned to deal with both his Maquis and his Starfleet crew for the rest of the Voyage.

To me it isn't about what "system" someone is taught under... its about how each of us affects the other. A hybrid started to grow that ep... and that made all the difference to me in this (for the USA) season 1 finale.

D47

Obeying orders: As my dad used to say...
Malcom -- 25 Feb 2002, 21:20 EST

"All they want from me is a cheery 'Aye aye'!" And he was an officer!