State Of Flux

Voyager Revisited: State Of Flux
Jules -- 28 Oct 2001, 23:07 GMT

"Was I particularly naive? Was I not paying enough attention? What the hell was it that let all you spies get by me?" -- Chakotay

Jules

"I don't like #3 AT ALL , Tuvok!"
Deb47 -- 29 Oct 2001, 01:51 GMT

This time Captain, I'm prepared. I watched this ep this afternoon, and wondered again WHY I don't watch it more often.

It is simply fantastic.

It gave us the "feel" of a ship alone. Hunting for supplies on an alien world, being "hunted" by a Kazon ship from one of the most violent of all Kazon sects, wondering all the while whether the enemy was just without... or also within.

It reminded us that some of these people have a history with each other... and I must admit finding out about Seska and Chakotay WAS a bit of unexpected news.

It reminded us a little about Voyager's own beginning... Neelix as scavenger extraordinaire, Joe Carey as the passed over Fleet Engineer, Tuvok as the Fleet's Maquis infiltrator.

"You were working for HER! She was working for THEM! Tell me, was there ANYONE on that ship working for me?"

He was passionate in this ep, wasn't he? THIS Chakotay I love, even if he seemed to be cuckold in the end by the faithless Seska.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Seska!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT a WOMAN!

WHAT a VILLIAN!!

WHAT an ACTRESS!!!

In the final scene with Chakotay, you can see her face turn from "oh woe is me, I'm innocent... can't you see that you big lug"... To the vicious temptress/covert agent we know the Cardassians to truly be..."If this was a Cardassian ship we'd be HOME by now!.... "The Captain's a fool... and you're a fool to follow her!"

A traitor on board?

WHAT a concept!

TPTB simply outdid themselves with that piece of ingenuity. They worked the Cardassian/Bajoran/Maquis angle into the story with complete ease, and I wasn't expecting it at all!

So many great ideas, so many great lines... again... I can't believe I don't rewatch it more often.

And as for "presence".... ... This "Captain" has it in spades!

"I'm usually pretty easy to get along with, Culluh..."

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

D47

The Missing Episode
Nina -- 29 Oct 2001, 01:57 GMT

I was sure I had them ALL on tape, thanks to the syndicated reruns. But guess which one is missing? Next run-through by my local affiliate, I must remember to remedy that. For now, I've read Jim's synopsis; thanks for the link, Jules.

Ah, yes. "I gave you my...heart." Seska, Mistress of the Pregnant Pause. This episode is the start of one of my favorite arcs, because I love both Seska and the effect she has on Chakotay. She knows where all the buttons are, and she does love to push them, too!

I also liked B'Elanna telling Janeway, "I don't exaggerate," and Janeway accepting that and working with it as an assumption ever after. The respect Torres lost from her captain in "Prime Factors," she's already on her way to regaining here; and she's working at it, tirelessly.

Maybe more tomorrow. For now, I picked up a copy of the new "Voyager" novel this afternoon and I am going to go start reading it! Fresh "Voyager." YESSSSSSS!!!!! (I only hope it won't keep me up too late. Why must tomorrow be Monday?)

Re: The Missing Episode
Deb47 -- 29 Oct 2001, 02:17 GMT

That's better than "The dog ate my homework!"

You know, I just realized that "the previous ep" was the Seska/Carey/B'Elanna work together to steal the space folding tech. Imagine Joe's surprise when he later realizes Seska set him up as the fall guy when she was secretly signally the Kazon!

So much for comrades under fire!

I too loved B'Elanna telling Janeway she "doesn't exagerate". Made me think of the time Geordie said the same to Scotty in that TNG ep. I decided either ever other series gets a "Miracle Worker"... Scotty/Obrien... or else it the guys with the "accents" that like to colour their work estimates.

D47

I really like that turbolift scene.
Jules -- 29 Oct 2001, 13:10 GMT

I thought about using "I don't like number three at all, Mr Tuvok" as this week's quote, but it's a bit difficult to get the context for it without pulling in half a scene and listing the irrelevant #1 and #2 as well. But that scene is key to the whole episode, and the shifting perception of Starfleet vs Maquis. It's clear by Janeway's reaction that she's stopped thinking about the Maquis part of her crew as anything but part of the family, because she finds it hard to credit that any member of the crew, whatever their origin, would betray the group to the Kazon.

It also shows Tuvok and Chakotay working well together, pursuing an investigation reasonably amicably despite the fact that one of the prime suspects is Starfleet and the other Maquis, and neither one of them wants to believe that "their" crewmember is the traitor.

And did you notice that, though B'Elanna is hovering around them in Engineering when they're monitoring their trap, they clearly haven't briefed her on exactly who or what they're looking for? She has to ask whose command code it is that's being used to cover the evidence; Chakotay and Tuvok already know the codes they're looking for and recognise them on sight. Presumably they felt it would prejudice the investigation if they told her who she and they were looking for, whether she's senior staff or not. The specific details of the investigation don't seem to have been released beyond the Big Three.

This Chakotay I like. He's a stickler for the rules... docking his own privileges for eating Seska's mushroom soup, despite the fact that he didn't know he was doing anything illegal until after the fact. He leads by example. And though he sticks up for "his" Maquis, it's presumably because he feels that they need some positive discrimination to find their feet as a minority group on a Starfleet ship operating under Starfleet rules, rather than out of blind loyalty. He doesn't want Seska to be the guilty one, but he doesn't shrink from taking the steps to prove it either.

Which makes it all the more odd that, after seeing his performance on this occasion, Tuvok can recommend that he be kept out of the loop in the investigation to flush out Jonas in season two, and Janeway can agree with him. Sure, they needed him to give a good performance, and they used that underlying hostility between him and Paris to good affect to achieve it... but he put up a pretty good performance here, and with someone who by all accounts he was once much closer to emotionally than he ever was to Paris. Bizarre.

Jules

"Federation rules. Federation...COMPASSION?" nim
david g -- 29 Oct 2001, 14:32 GMT

Re: Voyager Revisited: State Of Flux
Mindy -- 29 Oct 2001, 18:05 GMT

Man oh man, did I love Seska!!! One of the mistakes I think they made was writing her out...in fact, I think they "sprung" her whole Cardassian spy thing waaay too early, and should have rewritten her connection to the Kazon so that she wasn't revealed and stayed on board...it could have been Kes and Tuvok who discovered her duplicity, y'know? Or, given her friendship with B'lanna, maybe B'lanna discoveres it and tells Chakotay, who doesn't believe her? I don't know, there's just a whole lot of cool scenarios that could have been. Later on, maybe in the fourth season?

Anybody know if the actress who played her (forgot her name) asked to leave or was she, er, booted out?

Mindy

Unmasking a traitor on top of their first taste of leyola root.
D -- 29 Oct 2001, 19:08 GMT

No wonder Chakotay looks so pained .

Some great dialogue in this one. The whole turbolift conversation (which for retrospective continuity is OK; Janeway says she's not aware of any missing Federation ships, not a flat no, so there is no contradiction when they later run across The Equinox). Torres - "I don't exaggerate". Janeway - "I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats, and I don't like you, Culluh." Chakotay - "Chief Inspector Tuvok..." Seska's "justification" for her actions, sounding more & more Cardassian as she talks. The Chakotay/Tuvok conversations, particularly the final one. In all his years working with humans Tuvok's never heard of the concept of "misery loves company"?

I like the fact that Chakotay and Tuvok are both involved in unmasking the traitor. They finally really start to work together in this episode. I would have liked to have seen B'Elanna's reaction to Seska's true identity, since they were close friends.

It should be on in December.
D -- 30 Oct 2001, 00:27 GMT

I need to re-tape "Paralax" (several scenes are garbled). I checked the other day and it will be on December 7, which would put "State of Flux" on on the 18th if they're shown in order.

Re: Timing of betrayal.
Deb47 -- 30 Oct 2001, 01:18 GMT

I actually like the timing, Mindy. 10th story into the 15 that made up season 1 in the USA. I thought it was interesting that her "leaving" Voyager was because Chakotay "forced" her hand, not necessarily a long planned desertion. As "strong" as the Kazon may have seemed in the Quadrant, it was obvious that Voyager was still the superior ship... why else would Culluh want its "unique" technologies?

Jonas in season 2 was another nice reminder of discontent Seska represented on board. Also, in that phase of the traitorous arc we do get to see B'Elanna's reaction to Seska's betrayal during a discussion (?) with Hogan.

As for "why" they let Seska's chartacter "go"... IIRC it was more because TPTB were letting the Kazon "go", not that Martha Hackett wanted "out" of the show. Seska became wedded to their species/arc and when we left that area of space we left both of them behind.

When you think of it, we couldn't have had her chasing us for much more than one more season. Once Kes pushed Voyager 9500 light years away form Borg space, Seska would have been left far behind.

Anyway... if we didn't leave her behind, we'd have never enjoyed her "return" in "Worst Case Scenario", and "Shattered" quite as much.

D47

Thanks, D! NIM
Nina -- 30 Oct 2001, 01:32 GMT

Favorite line! ""I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats, and I don't like you, Culluh.""
david g -- 30 Oct 2001, 02:01 GMT

Episode one of my favourites
Lady K'Zan of Vulcan -- 30 Oct 2001, 23:59 GMT

Hello (Its been awhile)

I really loved this episode for most of the reasons already mentioned, especially for me:

1. Chakotay - portayed better in the earlier series. More in command, fitter, better dialogue. Can see why he would be given the post of Commander as he was more Captainish here.

2. Seska - sad to see her go, and eventually her final defeat but I think overall they got the timing right. Needed to move out of Kazon space and find new aliens to battle/avoid.

In my opinion its a pity that in the episode "Drone", the DNA required had not come from Seska. Imagine Seska the 'Drone' what a very different pospect for Voyager to handle. The differculty of deciding what to do with her, and the suspicion and distaste most would have of her. Is she still Seska or something new, can she be trusted, what are the options.

I see her recovering her memory slowly (the old Seska reasserting itself) and dupping (again)those who have been caring for her - trusting her -and defending the 'new' Seska's right to life and liberty and a new start, by using her increased abilities to search for a suitable alliance to get her home and meanwhile spreading disention amoung the crew and causing the crew to polorise into camps For and Against. Janeway for (until proved otherwise) and Chakotay against (based on the past- determined not to be made a fool of again). She would succeed and with a handful of the crew, leave Voyager ..... with some sort of farewell to Janeway that she is too weak to suceed, she will settle old scores eventually - you haven't seen the last of Seska.

Nice Dream, and dreaming is free

Seska the drone... And I'm sure she'd still want to be called...
Deb47 -- 31 Oct 2001, 00:14 GMT

"One".

An interesting idea, Lady K... makes me also think "what" would it have been like if the Kobali (?) found and reanimated Seska instead of Ensign Ballard.

Considering the banter between Chakotay and Seska in "this" ep, Harry could still look forward to "getting lucky" with the ressurrected one whether that was Lindsay or Seska.

Great, ep... I nearly rewatched "SOF" again last night, but am saving it for next month's "Evenings with Kathryn".

D47

Seska's Heart?
david g -- 31 Oct 2001, 04:50 GMT

One of the wonderful qualities about Seska--you never knew if she ever cared, at all.

she prevents Chak from being further beaten and killed in MANEUVERS...but then she quite happily takes over VOY in Basics.

so, when she wistfully laments over Chak in STATE OF FLUX...is she really meaning it?

david g

Ahhhh, the eternal question!
Deb47 -- 31 Oct 2001, 11:41 GMT

The question that makes "The Lion in Winter" so entertaining.

When are her lies really lies, and when are they masquerades for the truth?"

Seska was a wonderful idea, and I really loved the way she was played over the two seasons...but if you want "my" 2 cents "Heart" had nothing to do with it. Everything she did, she did to play some angle, some sceme. She was after all, a Cardassian spy. Not a lovestruck Bajoran.

Sigh.

What a Great Episode!

What a Great "Arc"!

D47

I subscribe to the "Hell hath no fury" theory for Seska.
Terry -- 1 Nov 2001, 00:04 GMT

If Chakotay isn't going to be sensible and betray Voyager for her, she's going to make him regret it. And also, she may love him but her own survival comes first.

What about the moment when...
david g -- 1 Nov 2001, 02:34 GMT

Seska tells chak in Maneuvers that she still cares about "Torres and some of the others"?

i always wondered about that.

david g

If she could get him to cooperate
Roxanne -- 1 Nov 2001, 04:15 GMT

Yes, she cared, but her care went out the window when he wouldn't give her the command codes.

BTW, why weren't the codes changed when it was obvious that he was in Kazon hands.

Roxanne

What about the moment when...
Deb47 -- 2 Nov 2001, 00:11 GMT

she stranded Torres and Hogan on that planet with the only Indian in the Quadrant that couldn't start a fire by rubbing two sticks together?

To quote your fav episode, david, DON'T listen to the Scorpion when she asks you to carry her across the river.

You'll be "sooooorrrrryyyyyyy".

D47

What I love about Martha Hackett's turn as Seska, Deb,
david g -- 2 Nov 2001, 05:51 GMT

is that she made this evil woman so darned...LIKABLE.

it would indeed have been interesting to see her Kobalized.

david g

Ahhhhhhhh....
Deb47 -- 2 Nov 2001, 12:25 GMT

To quote my original post...

"WHAT an ACTRESS!"

D47

Keeping Seska around
Sherry -- 4 Nov 2001, 20:38 GMT

Oh, if only! I sigh to think of all the schemes she could have gotten involved in. For example, she could have used--even encouraged--more Starfleet/Maquis tension by playing one against the other...