The Cloud

Voyager Revisited: The Cloud
Jules -- 22 Aug 2001, 09:15 GMT

"At the Academy, we're taught that a Captain is expected to maintain a certain distance. Until now I've always been comfortable with that distance." -- Janeway

Jules

One of my favorites...
D -- 22 Aug 2001, 18:49 GMT

if for no other reason than some classic lines:

"There's coffee in that Nebula."

"Dismissed. That's Starfleet for 'get out'."

"He's a pig... and so are you."

A lot of character traits are established or reinforced here: Chakotay and the Animal Guide business. Janeway - how addicted she really is to coffee ; admitting to herself that she can't be as aloof as she would be in a normal command, then proving it with the pool shark routine; wandering around the ship; the beginnings of friendship with Chakotay. Tom & Harry on the holodeck and Tom's programming skills. Torres and Doc - working together on something that overlaps technical and medical; possibility of rewriting Doc's program, becoming the Doctor's doctor, and giving him some control; Doc being annoying but coming up with good suggestions. Kes's enthusiasm and interest in exploring.

Some of the character moments are fun as reminders of just how far they all came in 7 years. B'Elanna was still proving herself here, thinking Janeway was pulling a surprise inspection, and hesitating as she took Doc's promptings and came up with a suggested way to heal the creature. The antagonism between her and Tom. Kim really is green, messing up on a damage report and awed by the Nebula. Neelix's anti-exploration attitude.

In this episode they talk about not being able to replace the photon torpedoes but in later seasons they seem to have had plenty. Obviously they figured out how to build them, but its one of those continuity nits that could have been avoided by a passing reference during a conference or battle scene.

Re: Voyager Revisited: The Cloud
Kathryn -- 22 Aug 2001, 22:28 GMT

Yes I also loved this episode. But My favorite line is when Janeway tell Neelix "like Jonah and the whale your going in"

Kathryn

I was already hooked, but "The Cloud" helped to hold me...
Nina -- 22 Aug 2001, 22:48 GMT

Neelix lecturing the Captain on setting an example for her crew (and Janeway making up her mind whether or not to let him talk to her that way; Mulgrew's performance in that scene has wonderful comic sublety). Neelix emerging, sputtering, from the ready room: "Jonah? Whale?" While Tuvok looks on...Vulcan, impassive, and knowing dang well what just happened behind the Captain's door.

B'Elanna telling Tom off (deservedly), and Harry taking matters into his own hands and making sure the Captain has a chance to socialize if she wants it - without having to feel that she's imposing her company on people who may not want it, but who wouldn't be able to let her know that if it were true.

And best of all, Sandrine's "I saw that coming a mile away!" (So did I, yet the first time I saw "The Cloud" I didn't dare believe the writers were really going to let the lady captain DO that!)

Rich in character moments. That, for me, sums up this episode.

Re: The Cloud
Deb47 -- 23 Aug 2001, 03:06 GMT

I like this.

Not the ep... THAT I love.

I like this "revisiting" that we're doing on the board and in my local "Evenings with Kathryn" group. It allows my mind to wander and think of "the little things" that didn't spring to mind the first 17 times through.

Somethings "good", somethings just silly, and somethings that Arsenio Hall would say.... "just make you go Hmmmmmm."

Hmmmm.

First. I just love watching Janeway saunter.

She does it sooooo well in the teaser, as she "strolls" into engineering, unannounced. It tells me, this is MY ship, and I go where I please, and when I please....

....and the ease she left engineering in B'Elanna's hands tells me she's pretty pleased with her Maquis Engineer.

(Loved the way she left B'Elanna literally hanging from the ladder.)

Second. I loved the fact that she's busy looking at "the big picture", trying to decide how to keep the crew together, to "be there" for them, to find ways with Chakotay to replace the counselor they never had.

Third. I loved the way we segued from hearing Tom read Harry the book on how one treats a Starfleet Captain ("Captains don't get chummy with the lower ranks."... "If she wants to eat with us, SHE'LL invite US to join her.") to seeing Neelix do the EXACT opposite. Compliment her on her looks to the point of embarrassing her, followed quickly by HIM telling HER what she should and should not do with her replicator rations.

Ohhhhhhh mannnnnnn, he came so close to getting fried... and the credits hadn't even rolled yet!

Fourth. I enjoyed the way they used this ep to bring the crew together. Harry and Tom in the messhall, in Harry's room, on the holodeck...

The way B'Elanna and the Doctor began to interact. Her treating him like an independent being... "why do you keep saying that?" and his irritating retort, "Because my programmers thought I'd be called upon for important things?"

Her complaint of his bedside manner, and her offer to reprogram his salutation is a forshadowing of "Eye of the Needle's" Janeway comment about "we've been thinking of reprogramming him" to Kes.

As much as she is irritated by him, I find it so telling... when a couple of acts later, she is stunned by his belief SHE held the answer to healing the nebula creature's wounds. When she produced the answer, his "bravo" made her drop her eyes in (?) memory of crochety old professors she'd had in the past. (Was this a Professor Chapman revisited?)

"The Cloud" also gave us glimpses into old relationships... like the way we discovered Chakotay and B'Elanna have also bonded over spirit guides in the past.

Speaking of "Spirit guides"...

This time...I nearly spit out my coke when I listened to Chakotay's prayer for a "powerful being to embrace this woman, and show her the answers she seeks."

Forgive me, but I didn't become a (coff) J/Cer until season 2... so I didn't "interpret" this prayer the same way the FIRST time I heard it.

"Yeah, honey... too bad you can't see the powerful being sitting on the floor next to you!"

(Shades of her "Missing important clues about primate physiology" 1 1/2 years from now!)

Sigh.

I'll come back to that "powerful being" idea later...

Fifth. The humor. It was everywhere!

Neelix and Janeway in the messhall, Neelix and Janeway in the ready room, Neelix declaring himself Moral officer and trying to get the crew to sing.

Tom's Holoprogram. Everything from the poolshark..."What's a finn?" "I don't know, some kind of Swedish money." to the tales about pick pockets... to the leacherous gigalo "Tell me, does she have money?"

(Although I must wonder...the gigalo... the woman who accompanies ALL of his holoprograms, SANDRINE!... did the sexual overtones of his program generate the intense disgust with him that Janeway's Fairhaven did 5 years later?)

The EMH's rundown of everything Janeway's done to hurt the creature...

And Janeway turning the EMH's audio "off" on the bridge, the way I turn off a radio program I don't want to listen to any more. (B'Elanna may be starting to interact with him as something more than a tricorder, but SHE definately hasn't!)

I really liked this ep. The way they continued to bind the people together, open new avenues that would be explored, allowed the crew to work together albeit under the firm hand of a Captain who not only knew when to "let" someone tell her what was and wasn't her right as Captain... but who wasn't afraid to tell that someone when THEY were out of line.

"...I'm not going to let you out everytime we hit a bump in the road... so grab a seat and hang on, cause like Jonah and the whale, you're going in!"

Which brings me back to Sandrines, a female pool hustler, and the Captain's prayer.

(paraphrase)

"Akkewcheemora, we are far from our homes and from the bones of our people, but perhaps there is one powerful being who will embrace this crew and give them the answers they seek."

Akkewcheemora came through, don't you think?

"Solids!"

D47

IMHO
Janey -- 23 Aug 2001, 09:24 GMT

Quite possibly the closest thing we have to a perfect episode. Seven years later I can sit and watch this episode and SMILE from beginning to end because it is so damn good.

I have yet to get sick of this episode.

Everyone is involved.

We learn a little bit about everyone.

It has PERFECT bookends:

the Mess Hall vs the holodeck: Ensings don't invite captains to sit with them? Okay then how about a game of pool? Little Harry proves Tom wrong. Some Captains like a someone who challenges them...or the old rulebook.

Janeway's log and Janeway's prayer: I've mentioned this before...Janeway was the 'Caretaker.' She may not feel larger than life then, but seven years later she is larger than life...larger than death...a powerful being...a force of nature...takes on the battle with fate...and wins. She gives them answers to questions that don't even know they have.

But anyway.

I only want to relive a few more things:

Kes worships Janeway. I think I'll mention that of the Kes has Janeway wrapped around her finger every episode b/t now and "The Gift."

Neelix. LOVE THIS MAN. He could have left. He claimed to have reached his talent limit. But no. Something clicked. He found yet another talent, and perhaps his best one - Morale Officer - he's already learning in his own "humble manner." Before long, he'll know this crew better than they know themselves.

Now my favorite moment is a small little quick moment. Harry's idea to release the positive ions. They do it. It works. He's relieved. He gets 'the smile.' Then he smiles. From then on you KNOW he'll do anything to get that smile again. Don't believe me? Just wait til next week.

How do I love THE CLOUD? Let me count the ways.
suz -- 23 Aug 2001, 13:08 GMT

Everything you all have said and more!

I love it because it's fun and funny and poignant. There is a twinkle in everyone's eye. Everyone is up to something. The lines are brilliant -- from Jonah to the stick to starfleet for "get out." All of it rocks and the pace is perfect.

The plot? Right. The Cloud does have one. And IMHO it's solid. Maybe Kirk would have said "Oh, well. We're the hell out of here." But we are 21st century aliens. Most of us honestly want to leave space(s) better than we found them.

suz, going to watch The Cloud again!

Re: Harry...
Deb47 -- 23 Aug 2001, 15:05 GMT

I just loved the way he rubbed Tuvok's nose in it when Tuvok admitted he'd never seen "anything like it" either.

And as for perfect starfleet officers, I also snickered when Chakotay corrected him in his damage report. Poor fellow, everyone was on his case... and still he came through in a pinch with his defenseive strategy.

Good going Harry!

D47

Re: Brilliant lines...
Deb47 -- 23 Aug 2001, 15:13 GMT

My "Quotable Star Trek" loves "The Cloud" also. In 4 seasons, it was only one of two Voy eps that was referenced 7 times by the book.

My favs?

Many already mentioned, but I loved the juxtaposition of two opinions about Janeway.

This from the EMH...

"A nebula... What were we doing in a nebula? No, wait... don't tell me. We're 'investigating'. That's all we do around here. Why pretend we're going home at all? All we're going to do is 'investigate' every cubic millimeter of this quadrant, aren't we?"

And this from Kes...

"If I were Captain, I'd open every crack in the Universe and peek inside just like Captain Janeway does."

Needless to say which one "I" agree with!

D47

Re: I was already hooked, ... That's one of the great mysteries to me, Nina...
Deb47 -- 23 Aug 2001, 15:17 GMT

How people could watch the first season and not fall for it? Some people actually "cringed" enough to walk away and not come back till the 2nd or 3rd year.

Every week, it seemed to just get better and better, and I still think so "a century later" as we revisit these "golden oldies".

D47

Re: Continuity nits...
Deb47 -- 23 Aug 2001, 15:23 GMT

I used to count the photon torpedos used, the way Jules counts shuttles crashed, until it got a little "boring".

I agree with your "passing reference" idea, but in a way I took season 4's "Retrospect" as that reference. When we found out they were trading for weapons, I decided "that's" how they replaced their photon torpedos.

Considering how often UPN cuts the show to stick in another comercial (Growl at them for doing that to last night's "Friendship One"), I can believe they felt they didn't have enough time to "explain away" everything.

D47

Good characterization that wasn't totally follwed up, what happened to "Sandrine's?", and one big...
MindyP51 -- 23 Aug 2001, 18:12 GMT

...flaw that Jim points out in his Delta Blues review...

The power reserves are so bad they can't use the replicator to make poor Katie a cup of Columbian java, but Tommy can program the holodeck for a full-scale replica of the pool hall?

Otherwise, it's not a bad episode in terms of getting into the crew; the "threat" is stupid, imho, but I do remember watching them "suture" up the wound, which was pretty neat.

Mindy

The logical thing to do would have been to...
Jules -- 23 Aug 2001, 19:22 GMT

get Paris to program in a Mess Hall in the holodeck, and have everybody eat there. Instant end to replicator rationing. But then they wouldn't have been able to spend seven years making jokes about Neelix's cooking. Or they'd have had to choose between that and having a holodeck.

Despite the fact that two (possibly three) of my all-time favourite episodes are holodeck based, I'd have to opt with keeping the real-food cooking. It's one of the things that I think Voyager got most right in the portrayal of a lone ship with limited resources. The pampered 24th century Alpha Quadrant crew clearly felt that they were roughing it by having to eat real food that had been hand-cooked by a real person, rather than just walking up to the replicator and giving it their order, but to Neelix and Kes and the Kazons, that was the normal way of doing things. And if they hadn't had a Delta Quadrant native doing the catering, perhaps they'd have played safe with their eating - sticking with what they knew - all the way home instead of broadening their palates by sampling what other parts of the galaxy had to offer. They are explorers, after all, and there's more than one way of exploring.

The only possible rationalisation of the replicator/holodeck contradiction that I can think of is that maybe the photonic construction of scenery and props works slightly differently in the Trek universe to creating something tangible and nutritional enough that you can eat it, taste it, digest it and stop feeling hungry. Maybe holodeck food doesn't quench the appetite in the same way replicator food does, unless you surrender some of your ration credits and get the replicator to provide it... and use that all-important second power source to do so.

It's a wishy-washy explanation at best, but there doesn't seem to be a better one. Muddled thinking on the part of the writers, because they wanted to have their holographic cake and eat it. But I love Sandrine's so much as an off-duty crew hangout that I'm prepared to not to mind the inconsistencies, while acknowledging that they are indeed there.

Jules

Re: Holodeck
D -- 23 Aug 2001, 19:27 GMT

Remember "Paralax" - in the first briefing room scene they mention that the holodecks have totally independent power that is not compatable with the rest of the ship's power.

They never really said so, but apparently did eventually solve this problem; they were able to transfer power from the holodecks to shields in "Fair Haven". We discussed this earlier this year and I think the conclusion was Harry's figured it out with all the tinkering he did to expand the holo emiters in "Killing Game".

Deb, what did they cut for a commercial? (nim)
MindyP51 -- 23 Aug 2001, 19:38 GMT

Re: Deb, what did they cut for a commercial?
Deb47 -- 24 Aug 2001, 01:19 GMT

The scene in sickbay with the Doc, the baby, Tom and Neelix after they were beamed back aboard.

"They" went directly to the hallway scene and Tom was arguing with Janeway about going back to the planet. Lacked the emotional followup of the original, by cutting those few lines.

Speaking of continuity... it was weird to watch F1 last evening... where Neelix is trying to bond with the alien by reliving the Metrion cascade... and then a couple hours later to see the part of "Once Upon a Time" on the syndicated Voyager where he's literally reliving the metrion cascade during a nightmare.

D47

Re: flaws...
Deb47 -- 24 Aug 2001, 01:24 GMT

Mindy, in the second ep of the season, we learned that the holodeck is on a completely different energy system from the rest of the ship. Harry was "trying to find a way" (or maybe it was B'Elanna) to make the systems compatible so they could steal the energy for more important uses.

Many years later... at the end of "Fairhaven", we learn that the Geniuses in Engineering eventually did solve that conundrum, since Janeway orders the holodeck program to be shut down and the energy sent to the engines.

Well, either they'd "figured" things out, or the writer "forgot" that very old plot point.

D47

Re: Holographic rations...
Deb47 -- 24 Aug 2001, 01:33 GMT

Jules, Tom suggests to Harry in this ep that "holographic champagne" won't affect him like the real stuff, and so I don't think they are even pretending it's worthwhile as a substitute food source.

Even if they "thought" it would be helpful, we know what happens when you take holographic objects off the holodeck. Since the holographic food in their stomaches would disappear as soon as they leave the holographic environment, even if it was "holographically" nutritionally correct... it wouldn't "last" as long as the proverbial italian dinner. (Where people complain of hunger an hour after eating their full.)

D47

"Quotable Trek"
Janey -- 24 Aug 2001, 05:39 GMT

That's a great book isn't it?

But there are so many I thought of that aren't in there that I think should be.

ANd so many from seasons 5-7!

But the one I couldn't believe was missing was:

"TIME'S UP!"

among others of course.

I love the mess hall
Janey -- 24 Aug 2001, 05:52 GMT

And I am glad they stuck with the meals there, for the most part.

Eating meals together is a very intimate thing. A theology teacher once told me it is the second most intimate thing you can do with another person. (If you can't figure out the first I'm not telling ).

Sure anyone could go home and replicate whatever for dinner, but most of the time they gathered together to enjoy a home-cooked meal. It added to the homey feeling they developed over the years. It began a place for comfort. How many times did someone go there for a little clarity?

From "The Cloud" on the mess hall becomes the comfort room. Advice, confessions, heart to hearts...you name it, its happend there. ]

Okay so the food was far from perfect in the beginning, and became something of a running joke, but they kept coming back for more...even when they didn't have to ration and even when Seven became a gourmet chef. Neelix is "John at the bar is a friend of mine" kind of guy.

I miss him.

I think that theology teacher is right.
Nina -- 24 Aug 2001, 14:00 GMT

And I'll add what the Dean of Students at New Hampshire College (recently morphed into Southern New Hampshire University) told us long ago:

"When the kids complain about the food, I know they're all right. How do I know that? Because when they complain about the food, it means they couldn't find a blessed other thing to complain about!"

Re: "Quotable Trek" Ahhhh, no fair, Janey.
Deb47 -- 24 Aug 2001, 14:02 GMT

Season 5!

D47

To add to the folk wisdom
Roxanne -- 24 Aug 2001, 16:19 GMT

My mother-in-law once said, "Has anyone else noticed that the time it takes to eat a meal is inveresly (sp?) proportional to the time it takes to prepare it?" This was said at a Thanksgiving dinner.

Roxanne

Oh, btw, guys, I also think the writers missed a big one by...
Mindy -- 24 Aug 2001, 23:30 GMT

...not using Sandrine's as a continuing "set piece." Although I totally agree about the mess hall being a place to congregage and seek comfort, etc. (food=comfort, of course! And primal, archetypal memories of gathering around the fire), Sandrine's could have, should have become the "10-40" or "Quark's" of VOYAGER.

Big miss there. Big. Miss. Big.

Way big.

Mindy